Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

Those Move shots are totally fake though (in case someone missed the regular tv remotes with one of them having a ball photoshopped onto them).

Indeed, would be a nice exercise again how to integrate the two controllers into a game like this. Otherwise, I expect the 360 will just have regular controller, with only using hands like this for free shooting, much like the sixaxis was used for that purpose back in the day.

 

Shooting will be more natural with Wave, but how would you move around? A controller needs to be in there somewhere. And there's still the problem of user skill level. I'm crap at shooting hoops. I'd miss every time, unless the game only takes my motion as intent to shoot and then has the player with his shooting skill take the shot to his ability. At which point it's a nice gesture but not game changing. And now I'm wondering if motion makes sense in a basketball game!

 

Oh gosh, if you didn't tell me I wouldn't notice. Now that I watched the pic closely I can't believe how amateurish and fake it is. In the second pic the only thing that changes is the image on the TV. I prefer not to comment more not to make an ass of myself!

In regard to the sixaxis thing.., it might be the case, most probably just for the free shooting part of the game, at least for Natal. With some imagination the whole game could be played with Move, I think!

OH SHI--

Now I... just need to figure out how to make it werk. XD Wark... or whatever. So here it goes, Shifty:

Move Right - Slightly tilt your whole body to the right (the game should keep moving the player automatically even if you return to a straight position)

Move Left - Obviously tilting the body to the left

Move Forward - Displace your body towards the camera (the game should understand that you want to keep the movement going on if you don't move for a while, if not it would be a nightmare)

Move Backwards - Same, just the other way round. Taking a step or two steps backwards should do.

Keeping still - If you return your body to a straight position and put both your arms next, really close to your waist and also keeping your legs as together as you can the game should understand that you don't want to move.

Jump - Just jump *sighs*

(looking for a rebound, to block or simply jumping for the sake of it)

Regular shooting - Move your hands like in those photos.

Fade away - Same movement, just displace your body backwards at the same time. Seems tricky.

Making a feint - Do the whole motion to achieve the same, previous, movement as you were about to shoot but stop moving your hands at neck's height -might be lag inducing though, human movements are slower than those on videogames-

Dribbling - Continuously cross your arms while your player runs towards the opponent team's defense.

360º Dribble - Do a 360º movement

Lay up - Run towards the basket, and jump extending your left or right arm in front of you. The game should recognize with which hand you want to actually do the lay.up. If the player is either right or left-handed in real life this should affect the probabilities of success. Making "the move" like Jordan against Lakers would be nice.

Dunks - Running towards the basket, jump with both your arms vertically extended over your head.

Stealing (defense) - Freely moving your hands should do, back and forth, like a crazy? or in a more relaxed manner if you are the quiet-type.

Pressuring an opponent (defense) - Move your arms to simulate some kind of bear hug.



Relaxed defense - just try to keep moving tilting your body wherever the opponent goes and that's it.

Running instead of walking (to help in defense or going for a lay-up or jam when alone towards the basket) - Tricky. It would be better using a voice command or moving your legs like you are actually running, flexing your knees rhythmically.

Things like tactics and so on, could be done if the camera is able to recognize finger movements, or either with voice commands.

That's what I can think for now. Any body movement should be replicable only using the hands or your arms, or any other upper body movement, for those with physically impaired legs, be it temporary or not.

It's one of the huge advantages of a regular controller, PS Move or Wiimote, over Wave's approach.

A Type A, Type B, Type C control for these games would be nice, as another advantage to adapt gestures for different people, which is also common in many other games using a controller, if well implemented, not as an "afterthought".

I can imagine some people just would feel like they are fooling about be it either with Move, Wave or Wiimote, yay.

Greetings.

 

That sounds convincing. Now I think about it, the player position would be a good guide for the avatar's actions. Just hold the arm out to engage dribble mode, and weave the body around with intended movement. Very natural and should map well to the game environment. Whereas Move seems more controller based, unless they require double controllers and include head-tracking to get a 3-point torso tracking going.

 

Hmm.

No obvious USB cable running around to the front of the 360, and a wifi adapter.

Hmmm....

 

That sounds interesting.... especially for games like GT. Also head tracking seems natural if you want to turn the car right or left without using the hands too!, not only for actual on dashboard head tracking. If they find a way to combine convincingly a button based controller with the camera features the possibilities are almost endless.

You are like me, truly interested in one of those "new" games. Judging from your posts it's one of the "symptoms" you're having, then it's probably enough to understand this. Also it's interesting to hear what other people think those games might play like.

What I find truly hard to figure out are some of the controls -back to a sports game- and how to replicate them.

I remember in NBA 2k7 you had to press A to change between players when defending, from guard to center. The game changed the player you were controlling automatically. The first time it used to choose the one closest to the ball.

I thought that this could be replicated with Wave clapping your hands, so the game changed the player after each clap. But this might be intrusive with other controls.

Also there was a way to choose an specific player pressing one of the shoulder buttons and one of the face buttons (i.e. shoulder button + A switch to Guard, X switch to Forward, etc).

Right now I don't find a way.

Perhaps to switch to a specific player touching your own hands together a lot in a sort of figure 1 , 2, 3, 4 or 5 motion depending on the player you want to use, would do....

P.S: Another idea on switching to a random player.

Bringing one hand across the top of the other and then across the top of the other again, like building a tower to switch between players regularly, in a continued motion.

 

Always fascinating when they show the skeleton tracking. I still think casual, exercise, dancing and performance games is it.

Not hot about speech recognition for gaming (as we may need multiple tries).

EDIT: I played the Basket Ball game in Wii Sports Resort and can confirm that a Wiimote+/Move controller works very well. It detected my slight wrist movement (just before ball left my hand), and felt very real. PS Eye should be able to detect leg and body motion for relative movement (on top of absolute positioning of the light ball).

If you have time, you should go try Wii Sports Resort. It's a wonderful game ! Very satisfying to see your direct actions translate into some in-game "achievements".

 

the only problem with guesture based interactions like that is introducing lag as the game needs to have enough data to determine what your intentions are. If you hands both move inwards for one frame, is that a 'bear hug' manoeuvre or going for a change-player clap? After two or three frames, is it still possible to determine? You'd need to have the whole guesture tracked and know where it ends to know the intended action, which is a heck of a lot of input time. Natal* with a controller would be ideal, allowing the player to move as they want the player to move while having the accuracy of buttons to determine actions that can't be implemented directly through motion.

*Using 'Wave' at the start of a sentence, capitalisation rules fail to distinguish it as a proper noun, and it reads first as the verb. 'Wave with a controller' then takes a different meaning. Whether intentionally or not, Move works better in this context because 'Move with a controller' implies moving the controller, which is what you do with Move. This is a reason why the name 'Wave' should be abandoned and companies go back to creating new names for their products instead of commandeering existing words and phrases. The Microsoft Wiggleotron wouldn't have any such linguistical collisions...

 

Claimed invention: a device just like the Sony Move, but with a smaller ball.

Run, don't walk, to the US PO now. They'll take this from someone else if you don't get there first.

Yay for patents on aggregation.

 

What about an USB adapter with two inputs, one for Natal and the other for the wifi adapter that connects both? We should know by E3 what the "status of their application" is...? .... Or perhaps the new 360 Slim has more USB ports but since that 360 is not a slim, yes, it is quite confusing.

Most probably..., voice recognition could be complex enough although it's something I used to dream about when I was an adolescent, back in the 90s. Basically related to the PC in general, not only for gaming, thinking that one day will come when I'd say "Switch on" and the computer would exactly do that. Same with similar commands. It never happened but I remember engaging in conversations with friends about that.

Apparently voice recognition should work better with the dashboard's interface, but we shall see how it works with games.

Unfortunately I don't have a Wii but maybe, some day.... And hopefully I will give Wii Sports Resort a try. Mind you, I don't see it happening soon though, except at a friend's house but I don't know if she has that game.

By the way, forgot to mention I LOVED Shifty's idea. Doing a movement and activating Dribble Mode, for instance, or any other. That would be truly awesome. Repeating the same movement should stop that mode.

I think it's an important distinction to make if you want to avoid some intrusive controls. It's an idea with a lot of potential in other genres aswell.

Another idea ; if you don't want to play standing still, when sitting tapping your heel up and down then your player could run.

Passing - Rotate your wrists. It's an easy way when you need very very quick passes.

 

I think we should wait until E3 so we can get an idea of what Natal is and isn't capable of sensing. A lot of time was wasted fantasizing about the kinds of games the "Revolution" would allow, and I think Natal's capabilities are being similarly overinflated by MS.

 

The video clearly shows the skeleton information being captured and it's evidentally very flexible, in contrast to the data we had on Wii which didn't show sensitivity or accuracy.

 

Wii Party Has Some Clever Wiimote Minigames:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/06/03/wii_party_details/

 

Sure, we know how Natal collects the raw data, and how Natal is supposed to work, but there's so much hand-flinching and leg-dragging that I have yet to feel convinced that Natal will be able to recognize gestures reliably. I won't set my expectations until I see it working well, not just working.

 

I’m seeing things or there is a wave pattern on the air vents?
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2727/natalz.jpg

 

You weren't the first to notice it. The original source of the "Wave" name did...

http://xbox-360.nowgamer.com/news/3313/natal-design-employs-wave-shaped-elements

Tommy McClain

 

I think the point is it doesn't really matter if it's working well in the general case. The original Wii lacked a gyro but still entertained millions of people. As long as some developers can find the right concept for Natal, we should see consumers gravitate towards it.

e.g.,
Harmonix Working On Natal Dance Game ?
http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/06/03/harmonix-working-on-natal-dance-game.aspx

I think a dance game may suit Natal better than Wii's Just Dance, or Move's dancing title (unless the developer also uses PS Eye creatively).

 

I dislike speech recognition interface because:
* It's usually inconsistent (I may talk differently under different circumstances)
* It serializes the operation by having the computer/console wait for me to finish
* False positive and interruption are not uncommon (Other people may be around)
* I don't use voice chat during gaming to keep the noise level down. Therefore, I most likely can't use speech recognition too.

Dashboard or XMB usage may be fine but if it's automation/macro, I think capabilities like clapping, gestures may work better. These can be used by mute people too.

Under very specific situations, voice input may be useful:
* Humming/singing (e.g., to find a song, karaoke)
* Communication tool
* Education (e.g., language learning)
* Hands are busy or dirty (in the kitchen)

 

For rhythm based games there really shouldn't be much lag.
Dancing might get away with a bit more lag than for example a guitar hero type game, but not too much.
The lag that's been shown might still be passable, depending on the music and coreography used.

 

It looks like the demonstrator was rather careful in maintaining her speed. I think if she swing wildly, or if multiple people barge in, Natal will be stressed.