Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers
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dragonelite
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What everybody is now familiar with the name natal..
Not sure if microsoft is trolling with us first to high price point and now stupid name.
I think i will wave natal goodbye.
Not sure if microsoft is trolling with us first to high price point and now stupid name.
I think i will wave natal goodbye.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
What everybody is now familiar with the name natal..
Not sure if microsoft is trolling with us first to high price point and now stupid name.
I think i will wave natal goodbye.
IMO, that comment shows exactly why the majority of comments on here (and elsewhere) are always wrong.
Just as we were all wrong about the ridiculousness of the Wii name after "everybody" loved the name Revolution.
In fact, the people who have even heard of Natal at this point (or the Revolution back in the day) are a very small minority of the end consumers who will purchase the product. What percentage of people who own a Wii (or bought one for their kids or grandkids, etc) ever knew it had a code-name of Revolution?
Wave actually makes sense, not only in terms of "new wave", "wave of the future", etc.. but also in terms of how you are physically going to use it to interact with your electronic devices. You do so with a friendly wave at the screen, not an angry button push or a overly exaggerated mimed effort like in the Wii commercials, but a nice friendly little wave.
As far as the killer app this needs to justify the price, it better not just be one. It better be across the board interaction into all of MS's titles.
I'm still not understanding the disconnect with what MS is attempting, the rumored price point, and the staunch opposition in this thread. Everybody seems to take it at face value that MS is making a huge investment in Natal and that developers across the board are doing so as well, compared to Sony's Move which really seems to be a "Me too" without near the capital investment. Additionally, the press on how natal performs has been nothing short of spectacular on an almost unanimous level since it was first demonstrated up until as recently as today. Yet, knowing all these things, there's still a firm belief that natal won't produce an experience worth $150?
As Rabbit said, to people who spent $700 for a PS3? Or as Shifty said, to people who spent $300 for gamecube quality tech?
I'm still not following the logic here.
I don't understand why this is hard for you to grasp. You really don't believe that people have price sensitivity at all? You can't produce a single thought experiment where someone is not willing to purchase something at a given price even though you used a variable in your original post?
The PS3 was NOT worth $600 to me since I had a 360.
The PS3 WAS worth $400 to me even though I had a 360.
The Wii was not worth RE-purchasing at $250 since I had a 360 and PS3.
The Wii was worth re-purchasing at $175 ($25 gift card) even though I had a 360 and PS3.
"Natal" is not worth purchasing at $150 (x2) since I have a 360, PS3 and Wii.
"Natal" is worth purchasing to me at $100 (x2).
dragonelite
Veteran
The brand natal is already pretty common even by the casuals i believe it was already showed on the tonight show. They already build momentum with the natal name why not keep that momentum going.The crowd already got a lot of exposure with natal and the 14th the are going to stream/air a Natal show with circus de soleil.
And revolution name for the wii was more of a industry insider thing i believe never heard of it on television only in some game magazines.
We shall see how microsoft is doing with natal at the end of this gen.
Both motion controllers all depend on software support if the software is there the hardware will sell just like the consoles.
And revolution name for the wii was more of a industry insider thing i believe never heard of it on television only in some game magazines.
We shall see how microsoft is doing with natal at the end of this gen.
Both motion controllers all depend on software support if the software is there the hardware will sell just like the consoles.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
How do you know if you don't know what it does?
Hey! I shortened it because it was off topic! I've already had a warning by the most evil and ungracious, heartless, terrible and wickedly intelligent mod on this forum and I was hoping to avoid a repeat!
In any case it could also be they are sending a message to the market that this is a premium product by the pricing OR it could be they are playing mindgames with the early adopters who are paying attention by making it seem expensive before showing off a lower price.
Lets say it costs $80 to make and package/ship. They put on a 50% markup which bring it up to $120 cost to the retailer who then slaps on a 25% markup which balances out the rest. I guess that makes sense if both are making decent money on the accessory. If they simply want to break even then that $80 product becomes $100, quite the difference in the end.
So it really does depend on how they figure it at their end. There are different price signals which work on the minds of the consumers. If they price it higher then it CAN be perceived as a higher quality product or if they price it low some people may perceive the value of the product to be lower. With the American market they can have the best of both worlds in that sales/black friday especially allow them to target the more price conscious people with a one day special.
The biggest factor in whether it will sell for $150 is the experience offered and whether the thing actually works as advertised. People are far less tolerant to teething problems as the price of the goods bought increases. The thing is, it would have to be likely sold for less in the EU because Microsoft haven't developed their marketplace and video on demand services there so the possible utility of it is lower. The Wii's earliest system sellers worked pretty much perfectly so thats the key to Natal really.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Clearly if they are making a name change, they need to do it before they pay big money to circus de soleil to promote it as natal.
(((interference)))
Veteran
I don't know if mums and dads are going to spend $150 on some accessory, that's 3 new release games.
And I think most of the 360 demographic aren't kids and probably spend their own money on games.
Plus, we still have no idea how reliable Natal is, recent reports and demos have shown that there are still problems. The last thing MS want's is another RROD style hardware reliability problem - no one will want to buy a buggy 150 camera.
Exactly, and unlike the PS3's more casual friendly European userbase, MS's audience is largely US core-gamer based.
What they show at E3 will show us if they have what it takes. I'm just not sure that launch titles will be groundbreaking enough to entice 360 owners to buy a 150 accessory, perhaps down the road we'll get the insanely killer app it needs. But at launch, MS should be focused on getting the hardware into the hands of as many people as possible - not trying to make some quick buck. It's the whole short term - long term success trade off. If Natal see's significant uptake it'll just encourage more devs to create Natal titles and improve the quantity/quality of Natal games which will draw in more buyers.
I also don't mind the name Wave, it's not as good as Move (which would suit Natal better than the PS3 motion controller) and it reminds me of the completely unrelated Google Wave, but it's better than Natal (or Wii for that matter) which would be a rather obscure name - "so, it means birth in Latin? and it's a motion controller?"
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Personally I'm unsure if I would buy it at $150. That's a steep price for an add-on. The experience & the games would have to be beyond cool. What little games they've shown with it so far, I would have to say it's not worth it. However, I do understand that they really haven't shown what it can do. Plus, they haven't really shown how the facial recognition works or the microphone and voice recognition. There's a lot of potential there, but I'm not sure it's $150 worth. $100 or less and I would have bought it no questions. But like somebody said that extra $50 is something I could spend on a full disc-bsaed game. Or I could use it to buy Live Arcade, Live Indie or Game Room games. I would probably get a lot more use out of that instead. Personally I don't think I've ever spent more than $70 on any one item for my 360(except that Batman: AA Collector's Edition). Closest things would have been Guitar Hero 2 with the wired controller and my Logitech Harmony 360 Remote. Until I see it in action I'm more tempted to save that $150 & spend it on a Wii system when it drops in price.
As for the name, I'm glad cooler heads at Microsoft have prevailed and decided to give it an actual marketable name. Yes, they have a _little_ recognition & exposure for Natal, but in the end it's a foreign word that I and a lot of people I know have never heard of. So I'm glad they're changing it. However, I'm not sure about the name Wave. At first it sounds bland, but I understand why it would be chosen. I see inspiration from "doing the wave". That's a lot of fun at sporting events. I also see how if you could 'wave' at the camera to log in. "new wave", etc, etc. Unfortunately it looks too much like they took "Wii" and "Move" and combined them together. Either way, I think if it's a success, I don't think anybody will care what it's called. They will forget it about just like people did with Wii.
BTW, I also think that an Arcade model with no hard drive and Wave for $300 is insane. That pretty much confirms to me that Microsoft is not price dropping the price on current SKUs whatsoever. I think Microsoft are fooling themselves into thinking that they should treat this whole launch like it was another new system launch.
Come E3 I'm either going to say I was right or I'll be sipping the Kool-Aid. Right now I'm leaning more to the former.
Tommy McClain
As for the name, I'm glad cooler heads at Microsoft have prevailed and decided to give it an actual marketable name. Yes, they have a _little_ recognition & exposure for Natal, but in the end it's a foreign word that I and a lot of people I know have never heard of. So I'm glad they're changing it. However, I'm not sure about the name Wave. At first it sounds bland, but I understand why it would be chosen. I see inspiration from "doing the wave". That's a lot of fun at sporting events. I also see how if you could 'wave' at the camera to log in. "new wave", etc, etc. Unfortunately it looks too much like they took "Wii" and "Move" and combined them together. Either way, I think if it's a success, I don't think anybody will care what it's called. They will forget it about just like people did with Wii.
BTW, I also think that an Arcade model with no hard drive and Wave for $300 is insane. That pretty much confirms to me that Microsoft is not price dropping the price on current SKUs whatsoever. I think Microsoft are fooling themselves into thinking that they should treat this whole launch like it was another new system launch.
Come E3 I'm either going to say I was right or I'll be sipping the Kool-Aid. Right now I'm leaning more to the former.
Tommy McClain
One would think that they will be promoting it as whatever they decide instead of Natal. There just using that as a placeholder since they want to announce the name at the event, not 2 months beforehand.
Tommy McClain
I've heard from another insider that has seen Natal that it's really amazing. It can do skeletal recognition, and recognition of other objects. For example he said, if you put Natal on a predator drone and Bin Laden's skeletal info in, it could detect him out of a crowd. I'm sure it's not that advanced, but that's the idea.
But he also said he's not sure if the amazing tech applies well to videogames.
But he also said he's not sure if the amazing tech applies well to videogames.
Pshaw. I've seen Chloe O'Brien do that on hundreds of traffic cameras simultaneously. Biometric facial recognition isn't actually that interesting. Any camera can do it, provided you've written the software. And lots of people have written the software.
Exactly. We really don't know what Wave does. There's only been the closed room demos (that have shown lag, and an unimpressive ricochet demo. Milo really doesn't even count). Nothing shown yet justify the $150 price tag (imo), so we'd be paying for the "promise", just like with PS3 when it launched.
With PS3 that promise has largery been fulfilled, but see where that price tag left Sony, at second place.
Yeah ,sure...
Beyond 5-6 metters Natal is depth blind ,and out of enough precision before that.
And from what we saw it has a lot troubles tracking a kid at 3m.
If they had to count on this to find BinLaden ,the WOT(tm) wouldn't be over any time soon.
Sure, but at the moment people are citing the technical aspects of Natal as unjustified - "It's not worth $150 because it's a couple of cameras." The same argument can be presented for Wii - "it's not worth $200 because it's just a $40 GC, and XB360 is much better value." If this is all consumers were presented with, I doubt many would have bought Wii. However, they were presented with different experiences, and it's there the value proposition comes into effect. The products have a degree of appeal that potential shoppers have to weigh up against its cost. Is this experience worth this price? At the moment we don't know what Natal/Wave's experience is. I hope! If the experience is limb-waggling breakout, it's certainly not worth $150! But if it offers some world-changing experience as yet unshown, it may be people look at the price and think, "it's steep, but man I've gotta have this!" and shell out.
Wave is quite similar to Move which is a better option than Arc or Wand -although this one was decent-.
They could call it Microwave so they would have part of the company's name in there.
Wiiwave wouldn't be a bad idea, too, given the success of the Wii -but maybe Nintendo would get angry-.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I really cannot concieve in my mind, any kind of world changing experience that Natal could provide that would make it worth a $150 price tag to me...
Even if the tech was super-uber precise at tracking twelve people all at once at 120fps down to sub pixel accuracy. I'm just not convinced that beyond the most resourceful, genius and lateral thinking developers, the majority will put out anything other than unimpressive, unfun, hand-waving simulators and fitness appz.
Controller-less gaming for me is too restrictive in the kind of game-types that would work with it. Why throw away years and years of very well developed gaming types and genres and contrain your platform to a very narrow selection, then tell your developers to "think outside the box" and "make up new ones"... On top of that you then slap a $150 price tag on your platform and expect the devs to come up with "SUPER AWESOME ULTRA UNIQUE" ideas to make your platform worth the price your asking for it.... i can't see it working to be honest...
Even from a consumer perspective. I'd be much more likely to pay $150 for a Sony Move or Wii & M+ because i can be sure that i won't be forfeiting my opportunity to play the game types and genres i know and love, as well as new, cool and interesting MC game experiences.
At the moment, provided the rumoured price is correct, Natal even with a few awesome new experieces with it's launch games would need to cost less than 2/3 of the console to be worth it to the majority who own a 360.
If MS are looking primarily at using Natal to sell to new non-360 owners then that's great for them. But why put up such a high barrier to entry for exisiting 360 owners who would be interested in the device, and so limiting the potential installed base, which in turn then limits the platform's attractiveness to most game devs?
Tbh... i'm expecting a few quirky cool launch games for Natal, which later every other dev will clone to make a quick buck on it. It certainly won't be the "overall" exciting new experience that MS is purporting it to be (IMHO).
Even if the tech was super-uber precise at tracking twelve people all at once at 120fps down to sub pixel accuracy. I'm just not convinced that beyond the most resourceful, genius and lateral thinking developers, the majority will put out anything other than unimpressive, unfun, hand-waving simulators and fitness appz.
Controller-less gaming for me is too restrictive in the kind of game-types that would work with it. Why throw away years and years of very well developed gaming types and genres and contrain your platform to a very narrow selection, then tell your developers to "think outside the box" and "make up new ones"... On top of that you then slap a $150 price tag on your platform and expect the devs to come up with "SUPER AWESOME ULTRA UNIQUE" ideas to make your platform worth the price your asking for it.... i can't see it working to be honest...
Even from a consumer perspective. I'd be much more likely to pay $150 for a Sony Move or Wii & M+ because i can be sure that i won't be forfeiting my opportunity to play the game types and genres i know and love, as well as new, cool and interesting MC game experiences.
At the moment, provided the rumoured price is correct, Natal even with a few awesome new experieces with it's launch games would need to cost less than 2/3 of the console to be worth it to the majority who own a 360.
If MS are looking primarily at using Natal to sell to new non-360 owners then that's great for them. But why put up such a high barrier to entry for exisiting 360 owners who would be interested in the device, and so limiting the potential installed base, which in turn then limits the platform's attractiveness to most game devs?
Tbh... i'm expecting a few quirky cool launch games for Natal, which later every other dev will clone to make a quick buck on it. It certainly won't be the "overall" exciting new experience that MS is purporting it to be (IMHO).
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