Official White Knight Story (level 5 RPG) thread

[heavenlyglory]

Yeah like I said earlier, I thought the animation was just good..couldn't see what the hype was about really (besides how great the game looks overall).

I think what helps its appeal is that it runs rock solid like butter, without a hitch.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How do people actually think this combat looks good? It looks brutal to me, completely mindless, I'd take KOTOR's semi-realtime method any day over this. It looks horrible, I wasn't going to mention it, but hearing all teh praise has me scratching my head. You guys think this actually looks fun?

I thought the battle (only seen the over-the-bridge-one) was very good. It looked very tactical. It might not be the most elegant and flowing of combat, but the gameplay looked like it had potential for me. My only concern was going into the battle, I hope you don't have to do lots of pre-combat setup! That would get tiring real quick.

 

[czekon]

i think the combat looks great. In traditional Jrpgs it's little bit starnge when your hero jump in front of the enemy hit him with sword and jump back .

 

[Ben-Nice]

. My only concern was going into the battle, I hope you don't have to do lots of pre-combat setup! That would get tiring real quick.

Your out of luck Shifty. Got some info from GAF



Basically, before the battle starts, the player equips actions into the seven slots at the bottom of the screen. Each action provokes a response and has a counter, as explained in the info screen when they are selecting each action. The ones chosen for the White Knight character were slash, shield attack and grab. Meanwhile, the mustachoied older man chose a series of attacks that when put in that order created a combo you can activate, because of the type of attack. You can see little icons at the side of the name which tells which is which.

So then in actual battle, the player positions the character and makes the targeting reticle. Inside the reticle is the action you've chosen and you can switch to any of the other actions along the bottom at any time, when you push the button, it activates and paper/rock/scissors thing goes into effect. So the shield bash should knock down an enemy as it did, but not if its met with a well-timed thrust attack and so on. This is demonstrated when the White Knight character gets his arm hurt from inputting slash attacks at the wrong time (and perhaps having little strength as well). Just like Rogue Galaxy, you can switch the active character at any time, and they all speak about battle conditions so you can hear what's going on without seeing it. So later on, when the female character talks, she's asking for help and he switches to the White Knight goes behind the guy and activates "grab" to hold him by the arms so she can beat him up.

 

[22psi]

Wow, this game came out of nowhere! Can't wait.

 

[ban25]

I thought the battle (only seen the over-the-bridge-one) was very good. It looked very tactical. It might not be the most elegant and flowing of combat, but the gameplay looked like it had potential for me. My only concern was going into the battle, I hope you don't have to do lots of pre-combat setup! That would get tiring real quick.

Since the setup is done inside the menu, those settings presumably remain set until you change them.

 

[liverkick]

After being kicked in the face by stuff like DMC4 (btw, sorry I ever doubted!!) lately, I am suprised by the heaps of praise White Knight is getting.

Well, I think comparing RPG combat to DMC type combat is rather out of context, no?

When it comes to the current standards of JRPGs (or even RPGs in general) the fluidity of the battle system looks amazing IMO. And judging from the gameplay descripitions it sounds pretty tactical as well.

 

[Carl B]

Well, I think comparing RPG combat to DMC type combat is rather out of context, no?

When it comes to the current standards of JRPGs (or even RPGs in general) the fluidity of the battle system looks amazing IMO. And judging from the gameplay descripitions it sounds pretty tactical as well.

Agreed.

 

[scooby_dooby]

When it comes to the current standards of JRPGs (or even RPGs in general) the fluidity of the battle system looks amazing IMO.

IMO, just judging from the video, the combat in KOTOR was better, faster, more tactical, and funner and that's a 2 years old game, you could pause combat in realtime and queue command for all party members.

I don't see this game redefining anything, it's rocks scissors paper, but slow, and canned, it just doesn't seem very enjoyable. I'm gonna go watch the trailer again...

 

[Acert93]

World graphics look good, animation seems great in non-combat and solid in combat. I like the fact it is more of an action combat game (still too slow for my tastes... why cannot we get Heavenly Sword style fighting in an RPG?!). Definately liked the combo fighting though 2-on-1. The characters seem out of place in the real world (which, again, looks great) but seem to fit into the bright neon/fire style fight at the end. I am not much of a JRPG fan (story book games, anime, or turn based fighting; although bits of each don't bother me) so it may just be the art style not jiving with me. But the more action in RPG combat the better

 

[Rolf N]

IMO, just judging from the video, the combat in KOTOR was better, faster, more tactical, and funner and that's a 2 years old game, you could pause combat in realtime and queue command for all party members.

I don't see this game redefining anything, it's rocks scissors paper, but slow, and canned, it just doesn't seem very enjoyable. I'm gonna go watch the trailer again...

It's a Japanese console RPG. With your new-found love for the genre, it comes as a surprise that you appear to have never seen one until now.

 

[LunchBox]

Wow this looks good!
Another game I'm added to my to buy list when it ever comes to the US shores

 

[Shifty Geezer]

(still too slow for my tastes... why cannot we get Heavenly Sword style fighting in an RPG?!).

One of the problems seem to be the lack of cross-genre interest. Action RPGs like BG: DA are heavy on the action, like on the RPG, and Action RPGs like FFXII are the other way round. RPG players are used to complex tactical decision making, and action game players mash buttons. It's probably not possible to have the full complexity of an RPG with 100 different commands available inside an action game, and for those that like the button mashing action, sitting through lengthy RPG cutscenes is a turnoff. I think people who would appreciate a halfway compromise between the two are in the minority, or certainly regarded as the minority by developers.

 

[scooby_dooby]

It's a Japanese console RPG. With your new-found love for the genre, it comes as a surprise that you appear to have never seen one until now.

I've been playing JRPG's since I was 10, don't pretend like you have any clue about my gaming tastes.

 

[cthellis42]

...that it looks amazing and very promising?

Wondering if it's more tactical than KOTOR or other RPG's is certainly a question worth asking, but the reason people are impressed with it right now is because of what it brings new to the party. There's certainly been a strong push of late towards genuine real-time combat in RPG's (not just small steps like "active time meters" and the like), and since there are lots of games with different applications out there, the jury's still out on what it does. Does AI trivialize player tactics? Can you truly combine party efforts without pausing to issue specific orders?

Some games seem to be pursuing the "play like Devil May Cry with AI companions" route. Some, like KOTOR, have more of a "live control, but where you have to pause and issue specific orders to get any real tactics on the field." They have different levels of tactical, cinematic, and animation success.

Personally, whereas you said of KOTOR that it's "better, faster, and more tactical," I find very little to go by of White Knight Story right now to even pretend to make an overall value comparison, note that "faster" is no ultimate trait that where "faster > slower," and will point out that getting the real tactical depth out of it basically requires that you pause the live action to issue specific commands, switch equipment, etc.

What seems quite interesting about WKS story right now is their concentration on cinematic, flowing, active-time combat. While I may well be off, what I can glean from the trailer is a concentration on positioning, move-timing, likely block-timing (but not in that awful "thrust your shield out" way; you could see in the duel times where the shield blocked the guard's sword, and other times where it slipped by--but not time where it seemed pointlessly hanging out of the way of usefulness as often happens in games), and locking characters and their animations together so the fights look more real and feel more cinematic. It moves at a pace that actually SEEMS real for "people swinging huge swords and wearing lots of armor"--which isn't often seen in the genre--and I think more importantly, moves at a pace where you can see your companions' fights going on around you and try to maneuver closer to help them, or--probably--switch to them to use your own tactics in the fight.

There are indeed any number of pitfalls the game may fall into:
- Every combat could feel more like playing Simon than an RPG
- The slower pace of battles would get amazingly tiring if the game tosses the same number of useless "kill these guys who pose no threat to level up" as other RPG's
- Depending on the length of time needed and menu UI used for the pre-combat set up, you may well still throw yourself too far out of the "live-action feel" they're striving for
- Cinematic fighting may get in the way of tactical fighting more often than not, pointlessly; in the end we ARE wanting to play an RPG here
- The animation may come off too canned and have too few options, which would make them extremely cool in the beginning but very tiresome later on (FF7 and FF8 summons, anyone?)

But overall, the look and feel of it seems very promising, and certainly an avenue worth exploring in the genre. I'd worry more if it were a different developer, but I place eminent trust in Level-5's abilities, as they've been one of the more trustworthy and imaginative RPG developers in this last generation.

I think the game will surprise us all.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

While I may well be off, what I can glean from the trailer is a concentration on positioning, move-timing, likely block-timing (but not in that awful "thrust your shield out" way; you could see in the duel times where the shield blocked the guard's sword, and other times where it slipped by--, and locking characters and their animations together so the fights look more real and feel more cinematic. It moves at a pace that actually SEEMS real for "people swinging huge swords and wearing lots of armor"--which isn't often seen in the genre--and I think more importantly, moves at a pace where you can see your companions' fights going on around you and try to maneuver closer to help them, or--probably--switch to them to use your own tactics in the fight.

I agree with this analysis. That's how it looked to me. It had a definite sense of 'realism' which was more about timing and finding opportunities than the typical bash-bash-bash-to-win of realtime combat. As a tactical combat method, played more like chess than fencing, this is how you'd do it.

 

[cthellis42]

From what I've been able to tell from other takes (including Level-5's own Rogue Galaxy), there's a lot more DMC or Dynasty Warriors to it, where you wander through groups of enemies tossing out your best combo, looking for that great AoE setup... Taking pride in the biggest damage numbers you can cause! ...and while that's certainly fun (I mean, who hasn't lost many an hour in one of the DMC's? ), it doesn't as easily channel the core gameplay mechanics people look for in RPG's. WKS seems to be trying to bring that more into play, while simultaneously using it as a way to immerse yourself into the combat; not by making sure you can control every element of it, but by instead making you... well... feel it more.

Hopefully there will still be a diverse set of abilities to use in combat, rather than small swings that build up into larger combos. Seeing the shield bash encouraged me. ^_^ Also, hopefully, the timing pulses won't be perpetually the same for any individual move or weapon, but change up depending on who you're fighting, how long the combat has been going on for (simulating endurance), how wounded you are... You don't want to make the game feel like learning a Tekken 10-hit combo and just tossing it out perpetually. As well, I'm hoping other elements like ranged fire aren't neglected due to an emphasis on swirling melee. But simultaneously, if they DO get put in, I'm hoping they don't overshadow the rest, as magic is often wont to do. It would be nice to be able to hurl a dagger at an enemy to help your ally, or fire off an arrow or two at a charging opponent then pull your sword out to defend yourself, but it would suck for a game mechanic like this to get lost in the "oh, combat? What's my largest AoE spell?" deal many RPG's hit.

 

[scooby_dooby]

After watching it again a couple times, I'm starting to dig the combat system, lots of potential there for sure.

 

[cthellis42]

It does take more than one look-see to follow, yeah. I watched it about three times in a row to try to pick out just what exactly's going on and certainly still can't be sure. Heh...

I'll certainly give Level-5 the benefit of the doubt that they'll be able to avoid the big pitfalls, though there's no telling how long the game is and if they'll be able to keep their system compelling throughout.

Still looks damn fun, though. ^_^

 

[3roxor]

the environment is nice and very lively. Everyhing is moving like the leaves, grass, and the water. Graphics look more PC ish somehow.