Official speculate before its too late: RSX Spec thread

[3roxor]

Ow then I doubt we'll hear about it then. Reading this board it seems that even devs aren't in the full know about the RSX yet. (well it seems..)

 

[aaronspink]

A basic question. Why is the GPU hertz so limited in contrast to CPUs? I mean 4GHz vs 500MHz ... It seems like it is missing out on a lot of bandwidth here.

Design flows and design styles, and the all important money. Intel will make a cpu design and sell tens to hundred million of them, and they will sell in an average price band of ~$200 dollars. AMD is the same just with 1/5th the volume. Therefore AMD and Intel are willing to devote a significant more amount of resources throughout the design flow and are willing to have longer design cycles and a LOT more spins of parts.

In contrast, only about 20% of the market is available for both Nvidia and ATI to sell into. Of that market the ASP of the chips is likely in the $50 range at max. This significantly reduces the potential return on investment for Nvidia and ATI, as such they must be able to make much shorter design cycles which in turn limited the design styles and levels of optimizations available.

Most processors are design between 10-30 FO4 delays which require very advanced latch and flop designs, and incredibly complex clock designs, and I won't even get into things like races, coupling, etc. In general, there will be as much time spent on just optimizing the clock trees in a CPU design as in the whole of a GPU design. GPUs tend to target more in the range of 80-120 FO4 delays, which means that a lot of things are easier, synthesis tools can do a better job because you aren't pushing them to the very edge, you can use more robust but less advanced clocking and flop/latch technologies, etc.

Then there are application space issues, in graphics it is fairly easy to parallize the workload whereas CPU applications are not nearly as easy to paralize at the hardware level nor at the software level, see amdal's Law.

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

 

[winstonsmith1978]

Ow then I doubt we'll hear about it then. Reading this board it seems that even devs aren't in the full know about the RSX yet. (well it seems..)

Probably not. CES=This month/Sony thing in Feb./GDC in March and E3 in May. So who knows what Sony is going to show at each one.

I would imagine that CES will give us the final controller and system shell, some game demos, maybe online and blu-ray.

The Feb. thing will probably be games. GDC will be not much of anything. E3 will be everything including RSX, Games and probably online in depth.

 

[dukmahsik]

Probably not. CES=This month/Sony thing in Feb./GDC in March and E3 in May. So who knows what Sony is going to show at each one.

I would imagine that CES will give us the final controller and system shell, some game demos, maybe online and blu-ray.

The Feb. thing will probably be games. GDC will be not much of anything. E3 will be everything including RSX, Games and probably online in depth.

seeing as how ps3 is supposed to be released in march in japan, i'd hope we get some more/complete info soon rather than e3 in may

 

[aaaaa00]

I'm guessing Sony's going to announce a delay to Fall 2006 at the soonest for all regions, maybe at the same time they announce hardware upgrades to cushion the blow to the faithful.

I don't think PS3 is ready for a March launch... shouldn't they be building the final units in factories already if they're launching in less than three months (or was there news I missed)?

 

[Megadrive1988]

my guess

September: Japan launch - October-November: USA-North American launch

November-December UK-European launch

 

[MechanizedDeath]

I'm guessing Sony's going to announce a delay to Fall 2006 at the soonest for all regions, maybe at the same time they announce hardware upgrades to cushion the blow to the faithful.

I don't think PS3 is ready for a March launch... shouldn't they be building the final units in factories already if they're launching in less than three months (or was there news I missed)?

A March launch was never gonna happen in the first place. Spring extends to June or something like that. Basically until E3. However, the fiscal year for Sony ends on 3/31/06, which means that any March launch would have to factor into their accounting, which means investors would have to know, which means we would hear concrete launch details (like timeframe and projected allotments) by CES, if not on the last earnings report. Seeing as none of this has emerged, I think it's safe to say that March was never in the forecast. April-June OTOH.... PEACE.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

Company "T"

How reliable are those sources and in what field do they work?

Let’s say a certain rumor about a certain firm not living up to there contractual agreements and infringing on certain patents during a working partnership (at that time anyway) failed through. Anyhow, company “S†went too company “N†to improve a certain technology that had developed with company “Tâ€. However company “T†wasn’t too pleased about what company “S†was doing. But before company “T†was too through a hissy-fit (i.e. suing) company “S†made certain concessions with company “T†(MONEY!!), thus no mention of this debacle in the news.

TREL

 

[MasaC]

Is it confirmed that at the CES they are going to introduce the RSX?

Nothing but Blu-Ray is confirmed. As far as Sony and the PS3 is concerned I think it will go down something like this:

CES: All about Blu-Ray and the introduction of PS3 as the first BD-player from Sony. Maybe we'll see the final controller design and some new game videos.

Playstation Conference: All about the PS3, final specs. All about RSX and the interaction with Cell. Lots of realtime demos, game demos and game videos.

E3: All about the PS3 games. Playable versions of the launch titles. Awesome, jaw dropping MGS4 appearence stealing the show. Realtime demo of KZ (they better or else... )

 

[London Geezer]

seeing as how ps3 is supposed to be released in march in japan, i'd hope we get some more/complete info soon rather than e3 in may

I have another "reliable" source confirming that Japan will get PS3 in July 2006, end of the year for US and March next year for Europe. Oh and confirmed a 2X Bluray drive.

This is the email:

Just got some good info that the ps3 will launch in japan only on the 18th of july. Yes it will miss the spring launch date.

It won't appear in the United states till October and will launch in march for the uk.

It will have a 2 speed bluray drive and will ship in limited quanities throughout 2006 because of the drive and cell cpu.

Make whatever you want of that, i'm just the messenger.

Moral of the story: anyone can get info from "reliable sources" but until Sony tells us something, we're all in the dark.

 

[HellFire_]

Didn´t you know that the Playstation Conference in February is cancelled?

Sony Talks PS3

Masatsuka Saeki tells us why system wasn't playable at Tokyo Game Show.

by IGN Staff

September 28, 2005 - Prior to the start of the Tokyo Game Show, Sony Computer Entertainment leader Ken Kutaragi had been promising for quite some time that the PS3 would debut in playable form at the show. That didn't happen. Sony ended up showing an impressive reel of video footage and ended its PS3 presentation with that.

So what happened to Kutaragi's promise? Japan's Weekly Famitsu asked Sony Computer Entertainment Corporate Executive Masatsuka Saeki that very question in an interview featured in its latest issue. Apparently, Sony could have shown playable software, but it decided that since this was the first time the PS3 was going to be shown on Japanese soil, it would be best to show only video footage first. Pressed further by the magazine, Saeki states that SCE wanted general users to feel the same impact that industry members felt upon seeing the E3 trailer footage for the system, and thus opted for trailer footage only , even though Saeki admits that being able to play the games would have caused a greater buzz.

Metal Gear Solid 4 was actually a late addition to the trailer montage, Saeki reveals. Originally, the montage was to consist mainly of European titles, similar to the E3 reel. SCE took delivery of the MGS4 clip in late August.

Saeki doesn't reveal too much in PS3-related news beyond this in his interview with the magazine. In particular, he doesn't commit to a price for the system, instead stating that price is something that Sony will be arguing over internally until just before the system's launch.

With the system having missed out on its playable debut at TGS, you might be wondering when gamers will get a chance for a first hands-on test. Originally, SCE was scheduled to hold a Japanese event in February that would give players a chance to play PS3 games, but Saeki reveals that SCE now has something else planned in place of this event -- something that will surprise gamers but is currently being kept a secret.

Saeki does manage some room for current generation content in his commentary. He reveals that SCE has high hopes for upcoming PS2 software, giving Kingdom Hearts II the nod as being the biggest of the year end PS2 titles. He also hopes to sell a million copies of Rogue Galaxy, Level 5's PS2 RPG that's due out on December 8th. Monster Hunter 2 will sell 500,000 copies immediately, Saeki states, adding that it has a chance to be a million seller.

Dirge of Cerberus, the next Final Fantasy VII spinoff, also makes it into Saeki's comments as one of the top titles due out this year. We hope that this can be taken as confirmation that Square Enix plans to get the game out before the end of 2005.

 

[Titanio]

HellFire - that interview was misreported. IGN even corrected their article:

With the system having missed out on its playable debut at TGS, you might be wondering when gamers will get a chance for a first hands-on test. Originally, SCE was scheduled to hold a Japanese event in February that would give players a chance to play PS3 games. Earlier, we mistakenly reported that this event had been cancelled. However, Saeki actually reveals to the magazine that SCE will be taking a somewhat different approach in holding the event. It's something that will surprise gamers, but it's being kept a secret for now.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/654/654390p1.html

 

[HellFire_]

HellFire - that interview was misreported. IGN even corrected their article:



http://ps3.ign.com/articles/654/654390p1.html

Cool, thanks!

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

With the system having missed out on its playable debut at TGS, you might be wondering when gamers will get a chance for a first hands-on test. Originally, SCE was scheduled to hold a Japanese event in February that would give players a chance to play PS3 games, but Saeki reveals that SCE now has something else planned in place of this event -- something that will surprise gamers but is currently being kept a secret.

Well that doesn’t confirm a cancel per-se!?!

Although was, was used….

Sony hasn’t officially stated other wise!?!

More of conjecture on the editors part than anything.

It could have been an early-February event; probably rescheduled for a later period in February. The only thing the article really confirms is…Sony will be offering something more special or tantalizing than just a regular hands-on PS3 event in February.

Edit: Titanio you the man!!

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

The RSX will be a GPU that's powerful enough to run at an acceptable temperature threshold, powerful enough to be produced by the millions by an inexperienced fabricator, and powerful enough for a sub $500 console.

My guess? RSX = G70 at 90nm with RAMBUS memory interface and useless features stripped out. It will allow the console to be relatively small and in the $399 range.

 

[pc999]

My guess? RSX = G70 at 90nm with RAMBUS memory interface and useless features stripped out. It will allow the console to be relatively small and in the $399 range.

In that case it should be more than that, once that they will have aproximated the same number of transistores (302M for g70 and 300M+ for RSX) also Dave and Jawed (in others thread) had show some maths to demosntrate that (given the BW) some of the specifications dont make much sense (eg ROPs number if I recal correct), so even if they only take out the Video HW (that about 20M+?) there should be some adittions.

 

[pjbliverpool]

What do you guys think of this:

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=17875

 

[Carl B]

What do you guys think of this:

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=17875

I think those drawings have been featured prominently throughout this thread already and are the object of discussion at this very moment.

Plus I should mention that that post they're discussing originated back on my home forum, so 'Chairmansteve' if you're reading this, chillax a little bud!

A speculation thread being billed as a Sony-FUD campaign places the onus on *you* to justify your words and actions, not on those who are clearly and openly speculating. And oh my god, Polygon Crusher - LOL!

 

[pjbliverpool]

I think those drawings have been featured prominently throughout this thread already and are the object of discussion at this very moment.

Lol. nevermind. I only looked 2 pages back!

 

[Brimstone]

In that case it should be more than that, once that they will have aproximated the same number of transistores (302M for g70 and 300M+ for RSX) also Dave and Jawed (in others thread) had show some maths to demosntrate that (given the BW) some of the specifications dont make much sense (eg ROPs number if I recal correct), so even if they only take out the Video HW (that about 20M+?) there should be some adittions.

That is what makes Rambus so compelling, the massive bandwidth it would supply on a 128 bit bus. If Rambus is used for the memory bus, the RSX would be able to take advantage of GPU features designed for a 256 bit bus running on high speed GDDR3 memory. Things like A.A. and HDR consume a lot of bandwidth.