Official speculate before its too late: RSX Spec thread

ihamoitc2005 said:
Benchmark for 1 SPE for optimized T&L is ~ 200M/sec no

That figure is a benchmarked figure that includes some lighting (what kind of lights, how many, we can't really know yet). It's not a raw transform rate, that would be higher. The paper max transform rate, IIRC, is 800m per SPU.
 
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Dreamcast

SentinelQW said:
ihamoitc2005 said:
PS2 Theoretical Max geometry transform=150M/sec
Real in-game polygon draw speed=20M/sec




Less than 5-6 million polygon/sec at best...

Maybe you are thinking of Dreamcast no? Measured highest performance of PS2 draw-speed is 20M/sec.
 
Transform

Titanio said:
That figure is a benchmarked figure that includes some lighting (what kind of lights, how many, we can't really know yet). It's not a raw transform rate, that would be higher. The paper max, IIRC, is 800m per SPU.

Yes, 200M is measured performance for T&L and 800M is theoretical performance for simple geometry transform with no light.
 
ihamoitc2005 said:
SentinelQW said:
Maybe you are thinking of Dreamcast no? Measured highest performance of PS2 draw-speed is 20M/sec.

No. Dreamcast poly performance 3.5 million/sec-setup limited. Ps2 max 6 million/sec real. Sony's figure is wrong, sorry. I work games development.
 
ihamoitc2005 said:
SentinelQW said:
Maybe you are thinking of Dreamcast no? Measured highest performance of PS2 draw-speed is 20M/sec.

(attempting to post something actually useful for a change)

In a relatively contrived case, I would expect many PS2 engines would happily exceed that as an average rate.

In game, you won't sustain that over the whole frame, but you might well see it in isolated parts. Overall the average will tend to be lower - but 10 to 20 is acheivable.

Typically games seem to be much lower due to trading off the performance against more processing, or dealing with not-quite-ideal art.

There was a Sony paper from a few years back that showed a PA scan of a game averaging 10-20 mil. On the other hand there was a more recent paper that said games were actually peaking much lower - my assumption would be that this paper measured over the whole frame rather than the active region, or just measured different games.

I know I've stuck stuff through the PA myself and seen both phenomena - a few very high performers, and a whole lot of very low ones.
 
SentinelQW said:
ihamoitc2005 said:
No. Dreamcast poly performance 3.5 million/sec-setup limited. Ps2 max 6 million/sec real. Sony's figure is wrong, sorry. I work games development.

If that's the best you can do or think you can get, remind me not to hire you.
 
What company?

SentinelQW said:
ihamoitc2005 said:
No. Dreamcast poly performance 3.5 million/sec-setup limited. Ps2 max 6 million/sec real. Sony's figure is wrong, sorry. I work games development.

I am sorry to say your company has not so effective PS2 graphics if goal was max polygons and only 6 Million/sec is attained performance. But do not be alarmed because Splinter Cell port for PS2 has only 500,000 polygons/sec on PS2!

Other companies have much better performance.
 
MrWibble said:
SentinelQW said:
If that's the best you can do or think you can get, remind me not to hire you.


I don't know if your really sustaining 6 million across a frame your doing better than the majority of PS2 titles. Of course you can get more....

Most of the games that push a lot of polygons do so where they have a high density of polygons, generally procedurally generated that do not have significant texture variation.

Baldurs Gate springs to mind, while rendering the water it's >20 million PPS, but the rest of the rendering is at :love:M pps. There are enough polygons in the water that it significantly skews the average.

A lot of the games people here consider technically superior,have relatively poor polygon performance.
 
ihamoitc2005 said:
GT4 only ~9M/sec

Gt 4 use maximum on Ps2. I think that less 9 million/sec.

Gt4 car = 5000 poly-full poly model and maybe 3000 visible poly/car
3000 X 6 = 18.000 polys
The New york stage scene less than 100.000 polys
Total scene roughly 110.000 polys
110.000 X 60 (Fps) = 6.6 million polygon/sec
 
Not correct.

SentinelQW said:
Gt 4 use maximum on Ps2. I think that less 9 million/sec.

Gt4 car = 5000 poly-full poly model and maybe 3000 visible poly/car
3000 X 6 = 18.000 polys
The New york stage scene less than 100.000 polys
Total scene roughly 110.000 polys
110.000 X 60 (Fps) = 6.6 million polygon/sec

I am sorry to say your many assumptions for polygons/car and polygons/stage are incorrect and your calculation method is also incorrect. Only public information is ~150,000 polygons/frame and that is 9 Million polygons/sec.

Also 100,000+18,000 = 118,000, not 110,000.

If you want to see a PS2 racing game with much more polygons than GT4, see old racing game Grand Prix Challenge with 22 cars with peak of 20,000 polygons/car, 1000 rain particles per car, and reflection of car on wet track.

And unlike some PS2 games, GT4 focus is not for max polygons. Many PS2 games have more polygons. It is for more effects. More effects = less polygons. It is possible to have good graphics with small polygon count.

But this is also only polygon draw-rate. Actual polygon 3D transform rate is much higher.
 
The fact is that talking about polygon performance is something absurd, since having a lesser poly count but more sophisticated effects is a much better aproach to a visually beautiful videogame.
 
ERP said:
I think versions posting history should be required reading before anyone is allowed to respond to him......

Yeah... the flux capacitor thing is also a sort of running joke from another forum, that got started when he predicted the PS3 to use holographic storage.


On topic, I can't understand why some people want the RSX to be the next GPU wonder so much. The PS3 is already quite powerful even with a GF7-level graphics system...
 
Maybe

Vaan said:
The fact is that talking about polygon performance is something absurd, since having a lesser poly count but more sophisticated effects is a much better aproach to a visually beautiful videogame.

It is always different compromise depending on type of game. Sometimes what you say is possible but sometimes it is not.
 
The final video demonstration from Young also showed better graphics in abundance, however. He showcased how Electronic Arts is trying to bridge the 'Uncanny Valley' problem of realistically modeled characters which animate to look totally unbelievable by showing the Ucap motion capture set-up currently running on the EA premises in Vancouver.

As an example, Young showed a video of an actor playing a soldier in Medal Of Honor being motion captured with the incredibly sophisticated mocap set-up, as used in The Matrix sequels, and then showed it transposed into a Medal Of Honor PS3 game scene, where the actor's expressions and frenzied shouting looked wholly believable, with both high resolution models and realistic facial animation. It's clear that EA is putting its massive resources into intelligently solving some of the problems of the upcoming 'HD era', and judging by Young's demonstration in Tokyo, those resources are significant.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=6552

Call of Duty the best selling game for XB360 launch, now EA is primed to have Medal of Honor dominate sales for the PS3 launch. Intresting and ironic since the CoD team were the original developers of the MoH series.
 
Its also good to note that EA was not talking about the RSX but rather the 7800GTX they had in the development kits at the time. That article about MoH on the PS3 and the fill-rate bound stuff was written many months ago and with RSX's not coming out in development kits until DEcember it is impossible for them to have had it by then.
 
SentinelQW said:
ihamoitc2005 said:
No. Dreamcast poly performance 3.5 million/sec-setup limited. Ps2 max 6 million/sec real. Sony's figure is wrong, sorry. I work games development.

I think you're wrong !

The DC CPU can process 10 M poly/sec with no effects, while in real game you could have even 4-5 M poly/sec...while Naughty Dog achieved 11-12 M poly/sec (Jak & Daxter/ PS2 ) !
 
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