Nvidia on C51 recall

[IgnorancePersonified]

well if it's the ata problem there a many threads on nforcers.com.
without their ata drivers cpu utilistaion was unacceptable for me.

There is no hardware firewall on nforce2 mobo's afaik.

 

[Sxotty]

well if it's the ata problem there a many threads on nforcers.com.
without their ata drivers cpu utilistaion was unacceptable for me.

There is no hardware firewall on nforce2 mobo's afaik.

That is true, but if there was people would be having problems gosh darnit, especially if used in conjunction with something else...

Anyway there is not need to argue with people that have no idea what they are talking about, if they would rather get a VIA or ATI board then let them.

Anyway the inquirer has changed their tune

Now it is the TV out that is borked, and they have proof it is Nvidias fault by linking to this article

Moving the output cable around revealed the noise source to be an unshielded breakout cable surrounded by high-frequency circuits. Hopefully Foxconn is able to cure this in later editions with a shielded cable, but buyers of the current model will definitely want to avoid using the S-Video output until then! Since TV-Out is indeed "out," it's time to move on to more promising aspects of this board.

Yes well, darn Nvidia anyway...

Oh I can can agree my foxconn mobo is not the cats pajamas, but it was cheap and I knew it was not all that when I got it.

And sniping, when MAxtor says "IT IS OUR FAULT" that is not Nvidia passing the buck, btw it is caviar, not carver. And I have had nforce1-->4 and never had a problem. I did not install the IDE drivers at first though later I did and all went swimingly in any case.

I do not deny that some people have issues, but I have a secret I had data corruption on my ATI chipset, but I did not whine and bitch at ATI b/c I realized it was likely my HDD fault, and when I reinstalled everything was peachy. A few isolated incidents do not a case make.

If it is such a problem, start a class action.

 

[pocketmoon66]

the noise source to be an unshielded breakout cable surrounded by high-frequency circuits. Hopefully Foxconn is able to cure this in later editions with a shielded cable, but buyers of the current model will definitely want to avoid using the S-Video output until then

I can't believe Fuad didn't bother reading the whole paragraph before posting his new 'C51 Broken' headline. Surely Nvidia would be justified in asking for a full and proper retraction ?!

 

[Sxotty]

Pocketmoon that is why I started this topic
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24761

I was wondering if his objectivity has been swayed by his ego...

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

That is true, but if there was people would be having problems gosh darnit, especially if used in conjunction with something else...

Anyway there is not need to argue with people that have no idea what they are talking about, if they would rather get a VIA or ATI board then let them.

The "problem" was with the drivers as I said. You confirm this by saying you hadn't installed the drivers and thus didn't experience the ata problems that are a well known "feature" of nforce2 boards with the drivers installed...comprehende?
As I said: without the drivers cpu utilization was unacceptably high for what was at the time a performance motherboard. Locking up the OS whilst copying large files, which I do regularly, is unacceptable and what I would expect of a PIO mode hard drive.

If there was no problem with the drivers why did you not install them?

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

great, I just bought an ECS Nforce4-A393 board and I have to worry about one of the Major components not working correctly? I guess I'll just go back to SIS when they release their next chipset for Athlon 64

 

[Sxotty]

The "problem" was with the drivers as I said....

As I said: without the drivers cpu utilization was unacceptably high for what was at the time a performance motherboard. Locking up the OS whilst copying large files, which I do regularly, is unacceptable and what I would expect of a PIO mode hard drive.

If there was no problem with the drivers why did you not install them?

I wasn't talking about you man, you were smart enough to realize the nforce2 did not have a hardware firewall that was my point. And further my point was that as you said THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THE DRIVERS not the hardware, so making up some new mysterious problem and basing it on a theoretical hardware problem that did not exist in the past seems silly.

I mean it is ridiculous people are making up things that don't exist and saying there are faults with them.

And I did install the ata drivers for nforce2, I just waited till they fixed the problem

I quit installing the ATA drivers recently b/c I have SATA HDD anyway and see no point in taking another few seconds to install them...

Anyway the Inq, has now decided that instead of data corruption they really meant it had bad TV out quality w/o a shielded cable... afterall those two things are identical right (that was sarcasm )

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

I wasn't talking about you man, you were smart enough to realize the nforce2 did not have a hardware firewall that was my point. And further my point was that as you said THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THE DRIVERS not the hardware, so making up some new mysterious problem and basing it on a theoretical hardware problem that did not exist in the past seems silly.

I mean it is ridiculous people are making up things that don't exist and saying there are faults with them.

And I did install the ata drivers for nforce2, I just waited till they fixed the problem

I quit installing the ATA drivers recently b/c I have SATA HDD anyway and see no point in taking another few seconds to install them...

Anyway the Inq, has now decided that instead of data corruption they really meant it had bad TV out quality w/o a shielded cable... afterall those two things are identical right (that was sarcasm )

You have no clue on what your talking about. What your talking about proves its a hardware problems and not a drivers problem. After all this time and many drivers releases, non work and give data corroption. Look at this this way, in your way of thinking if the basic windows VGA driver work then the video card has no hardware problems. The problem with this thinking is its only 2D and there no use of the advance parts of the video card like 3D or video hardware decoding asist. The windows basic drivers for NVs ATA controler are just the basics just to have working ATA. The advance parts of the ATA controler are not working with the windows basic and need NV drivers to use the advance parts of the ATA controler. The flaw is in the advance part that lower CPU usage/hardware ATA asist for faster data transfer rates. Its only when using NV drivers the data corroption come up and with all NV released drivers having the same problem would point to a hardware flaw/probelm.

 

[Geo]

Getting a little warm in here, or is it just me? I mean, not that anyone has crossed any lines yet. Just starting to get that "yeah, but two more exchanges from now is where it gets ugly" feeling going.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Getting a little warm in here, or is it just me? I mean, not that anyone has crossed any lines yet. Just starting to get that "yeah, but two more exchanges from now is where it gets ugly" feeling going.

You know a lot of people have been burned in the past by messed up/buggy hardware

Some recent examples

VIA early chipsets had USB/ATA/PCI bus saturation issues
S3 had the borked Savage 2K
Nvidia had the borked NV30
Intel with the pentium bug (not anything that would have impacted normal users)

I dunno about you but I hate spending cash on something only to find out that it is borked and there is little if anything that will ever get one about it.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

You know a lot of people have been burned in the past by messed up/buggy hardware

Some recent examples

VIA early chipsets had USB/ATA/PCI bus saturation issues
S3 had the borked Savage 2K
Nvidia had the borked NV30
Intel with the pentium bug (not anything that would have impacted normal users)

I dunno about you but I hate spending cash on something only to find out that it is borked and there is little if anything that will ever get one about it.

I have the same fellings as you on this one. I build many systems for home and office users and need a very stable dipendable system. The two chipsets I will not use is VIA and NV because of the problems with the chipset that I have tested to be there. What strange to me is why ppl out there would defend the bad chipsets and think theres no problem with them when there is. The problems with both chipsets are one that will not be seen by everyone but a good number of them. Theres a thing that if a person is not see the problem then the problem is made up even when the problem is there.

 

[Sxotty]

You have no clue on what your talking about. .. After all this time and many drivers releases, non work and give data corroption.

Well see it doesn't give data corruption and has not for years, but hey good fun. I heard another theory if you use the ion cannon with the flux capicitator you get burned out components, oh wait that doesn't exist either.


Remember it is the TV out now that is borked they decided the data corruption bit was all just a funny story that was made up.

great, I just bought an ECS Nforce4-A393 board and I have to worry about one of the Major components not working correctly? I guess I'll just go back to SIS when they release their next chipset for Athlon 64

And no, not that anyone actually knows of, it seems to work perfectly now, it is more of an urban legend.

My ABIT NF7-s was the most stable system I have ever used, better than any intel, sis, via, or other chipset I have ever had. And I did use the PATA drivers from Nvidia during the time I had it though I waited till the summer after it was released to start using them and never had a problem.

Of course I did not get the 1.0 version, I learned long ago to wait until v1.2 or so comes along, unless you want trouble that is.

and @ Geo, it may be warm, but I don't mind. If there are personal attacks beyond the point of not knowing something then I might care, but it is not as though my mother was insulted.

 

[Sinistar]

I have an nforce 4 ultra, and every time I go to run a file sharing program, the computer has a BSOD after about thirty minutes or so. You can google this, and see that I am not the only one with this problem. Its always a "NVTcp.sys" error. I was wondering, is this:

1. A driver bug? (have tried different drivers)
2. A hardware bug?
3. A feature NVidia included on behalf of the recording industry?

 

[Deathlike2]

I have an nforce 4 ultra, and every time I go to run a file sharing program, the computer has a BSOD after about thirty minutes or so. You can google this, and see that I am not the only one with this problem. Its always a "NVTcp.sys" error.

Did you install the NVidia fireware software (it usually comes with the whole driver package and asks you if you want to install it)? If you did, this is the most probable reason for the issue you have.

Addressing the original topic:

Not to say NVidia has bad hardware or anything, but consider the major sites in which host the kind of people who have problems.. specifically with NVidia mobos. (NForcers HQ, NVidia's own forum.. etc.)

The major themes that come on to those sites are the following:

Terrible firewall software - they cause problems from unable to use the internet to BSODs (like the user I'm quoting).

IDE drivers - somehow they don't work properly (hard disk corruption) and I believe there is still the ongoing issue with Punkbuster, lag, and NForce based chipsets.. which I recall a suggestion was to uninstall the IDE drivers and the lag would be gone...

Not to say there isn't a history of mobo problems with certain companies (VIA's 686b? southbridge corruption)... but I don't believe those kinds of issues have remanifested themselves like NVidia has (since NVidia has introduced their hardware firewall, there have been longstanding issues from users). I personally use and lean towards VIA chipsets (I use a VIA K8T800 based chipset and have had no probs, like my former KT133 mobo) because of experience. Seeing as how the NForce4 has some problems.. I feel rather weary with them... that's not to say I won't buy them.. but it makes me wonder. That doesn't mean they won't fix these problems, but I feel that it is a fair idea to keep track of what problems continue to surface (particularly with the latest chipsets) and if they ever get resolved. Not that I would ever use the NVidia hardware firewall (I would get a software one for sure), but when you go buy hardware specifically for a feature you KNOW you will use and it fails to deliver.. consumer perception will be the reality.

But whatever I guess.

 

[Sinistar]

The major themes that come on to those sites are the following:

Terrible firewall software - they cause problems from unable to use the internet to BSODs (like the user I'm quoting).

IDE drivers - somehow they don't work properly (hard disk corruption) and I believe there is still the ongoing issue with Punkbuster, lag, and NForce based chipsets.. which I recall a suggestion was to uninstall the IDE drivers and the lag would be gone...

Yes, the hardware firewall is the problem I was describing. You get to many threads going on the network and BSOD.

As for the IDE drivers, my system get BSOD while booting if I use them.

The question though, is this a hardware issue or a driver issue?

 

[Deathlike2]

The question though, is this a hardware issue or a driver issue?

Well, it seems to be a software issue.. as the older hardware seems to exhibit the same behavior.. but then you wonder why it generally hasn't been fixed.. which could lead you to believe it is a hardware issue.

I have an NForce 3 board and that runs fine (I don't use it primarily, but I could if I wanted to).. but the stranger things that have happened with it are generally with the hard disk access.. I use Maxtor hard drives (and I stand by them because they've always worked for me) and one time.. when I went through the properties of the controller.. it seemed like the drivers disabled DMA altogether because of "errors". This hard drive was used on an older system and worked just fine (it's a 15GB hd) and now suddenly there are "errors". I'm not sure if I'm getting any sort of hard disk corruption.. but with the simple fact that the system seems a little sluggish at times (in terms of hard disk access).. I lean towards problems in the IDE controller. (the hd is a PATA that supports UDMA133) I don't expect everyone to have the same problems I do, but I question the drivers NVidia makes for their mobos.. and perhaps the problems seems to be either bad driver writing (as if there weren't bad Forceware drivers coming out as of late), but perhaps the hardware is more flawed than I thought. Maybe I'm just fortunate that the VIA system I have has little trouble with the VIA 4-in-1 drivers (I don't use any SATA hds as of yet and problems I have are generally user errors) and perhaps myself being slightly adept at dealing with this kind of stuff gives me a slight edge (as to avoiding problems)

Even though there are people in forums that complain about certain stuff (generally user errors), there is something to be said about the alarming problems there are in NVidia chipsets IMO. Perhaps I'm lucky with my VIA mobo and not with my NVidia mobo... but then I get the same brand (ASUS) and there's a difference in user experience (I get the boards from the same retailer to boot, as not to give fault to ASUS)...

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Deathlike2,

It could be a hardware issue that has not been corrected in the newer revisions. I currently have the 2.7 drivers installed (latest on ECS) and they are working ok for me. What I worry about is the your system is corrupted when you boot because of a hardware bug that cannot be fixed.

 

[Mummy]

You been bad nV, bad bad bad

The major themes that come on to those sites are the following:

Terrible firewall software - they cause problems from unable to use the internet to BSODs (like the user I'm quoting).

IDE drivers - somehow they don't work properly (hard disk corruption) and I believe there is still the ongoing issue with Punkbuster, lag, and NForce based chipsets.. which I recall a suggestion was to uninstall the IDE drivers and the lag would be gone...

What i find most disturbing is the fact that nForce 2 ide drivers never been smooth either, i wonder if they actually work fine at present time.

I say "i wonder" because i stay away from them like the plauge even now, MS ide drivers work fine but cpu utiliziation is quite high, and that really bothers me, especially when i see what "DMA" really means on intel platforms.

nV STILL CAN'T DO IDE DRIVERS properly, since its first incarnation of chipsets, that was what, 3 years ago? 4 ?

I own one nForce 1 mobo, and two(three if i include my brother A7N8X which was mine) nForce 2 (NF7-S 2.0, NF7-S), i've been tempted to jump on nForce 4 because of Athlon64 , but still nF4 doesn't convince me enough, the fact that ActiveArmor (and highly marketed feature) doesn't work doesn't bother me too much (something good to have though), but the never ending problem with ide drivers really do, im not going to buy another NF platform and stick to M$ drivers again, that's just something i cannot accept.

My personal opinion (i might be talking crap) is that nV doesn't care enough, their chips sell like hotcakes, even with those problems, so they probably don't bother (ie, invest) too much in fixing problems.

I also think that review sites have a big responsibility in letting nV* act like this, there should have been more discussions (like that f.e. http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8989, which i believe comes late btw) about those problems, sure most sites talked about those problems in the reviews themselves, and ppl continued to talk about them in forums, but i believe that a "front page" discussion like the one i linked is needed.

What i REALLY would like to find in sites is a review on drivers too, that happens with video card drivers, but doesn't happen much with motherboard drivers, i'd love to see a "Hardware problems" section where things like IDE and Ethernet, in case of NF4 f.e., are put in easy sight until they get fixed, i think we (users and journalists) should bug IHVs to death till they get it done right, otherwise, like i said above, they just don't give a damn.

* i say "nV" but that might apply to other companies as well, but being a longtime nForce user i can't talk about others

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

The nforce2 Ide drivers were pretty much fine for me after XP SP2 though I would get a clunking sound off the drive I currently have in my ULI system. It has never happened since.

That is a good article on techreport and I agree that there should be more of it. Wassson and Techreoprt do mention these things when they do write up's and is one reason why I read most revies from that site. The most frustrating thing for me was it(IDE problem) was a niggling error - performance was fine and the nforce2 had some great technology but it came at the price of stability I think. There's another driver thread to do with nvidia's video drivers but it's the same theme for me: they seem to concentrate on benchmark graphs but forego the stabilty. I wonder, since they are entering the High end workstation market if they will concentrate more on robustness across the broad range of features there chipset's have? On paper they look good, performance is there but instabilty is something I will stay well clear off.

I'm thinking a hardware issue that was overcome with software for me. I don't know but they may have kept the same modular component and just moved it from product to product hence why there seems to be the same problem across 3 generations. That could be my arse speaking though.

 

[Sxotty]

There really is no evidence at all of any IDE errors anymore. Even the techreport thing just kind of asks if it exists.

The firewall stuff truly is a problem. Personally I have a router and have never used the firewall, I turn of the windows one so why would I want the Nvidia one running?

It doesn't matter though, I remember all the whining about the nf7-s having the pci slots moved one down from agp, people will complain no matter what, but I will certainly agree they have a right too in regards to the firewall thing.

The thing is this whole topic was started on an erroneous statement by the Inq.

The situation is akin to the [H] debacle of the radeon xpress chipset, except that Inq did no testing whatsoever. They simply made something up that sounded nice. I am somewhat surprised at how effective it has been at making folks believe what are simply fasle statements.

However, if that is what a person would like to believe beforehand I am sure they find comfort in corroboration, even if it is made up, even if the only evidence they have is an unshielded video cable.

I have no idea if the active armor thing is a hardware/software problem, and I really don't care as I don't use it, but I encourage the rest of you that do care to get to the bottom of it and demand accountability. People should do that to Mobo makers, however throwing mud around where it doesn't belong is not a useful occupation.

There simply no longer is a problem with data corruption on nvidias end. Sure there was a problem that maxtor admitted was their fault. Sure if you have faulty ram you can get data corruption. Sure the list is endless like I said I had data corruption on my ati chipset mobo, but that does not mean I blamed them, there are extraneous factors involved, that is why the number of people who actually get corruption is quite small in proportion to the number sold.

As always it is the vocal minority you hear not the people who are happy. I have been in the bad luck crowd before with pieces of faulty hardware and was clamoring to no end and if I was one of the people now having problems I would clamor till it was fixed, they should.