Nvidia DLSS antialiasing discussion *spawn*

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by DavidGraham, Sep 19, 2018.

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  1. DavidGraham

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    Anthem to feature the best implementation of DLSS to date

    https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/...on-to-date-comparison-screenshots-benchmarks/
     
  2. Shifty Geezer

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    Results look good, although...
    Isn't that a 'fault'? Why would DLSS (16x super sampled source material) look sharper unless it was trained to apply a sharpen filter?

    How does one download the source image? All I can see is a windowed downsampling with no option to copy/view the original unscaled image.
     
  3. iroboto

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    Maybe they got the understanding wrong and it's just DLSS (AA) on 4K frame buffer, that could still give them some minor boosts to FPS, while improving the aliasing over traditional AA algorithms. Need to investigate this more.

    edit: fairly confident it's just DLSS on AA upon closer examination. I think 1440p to 4K if that was DLSS upscale, we'd see perhaps an even further improvement in frame rate (it's not like we're running ray tracing on Anthem). And if I'm wrong, then damn. I really don't know.
     
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  4. MfA

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    I was just going to say "Do I look like I know what a JPEG is?" ... but taking a closer look JPEG is all you need really. DLSS, 4K ... did someone change the definition of sharp?

    PS. I got the 4K imgur links with inspect element.
     
    #404 MfA, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  5. iroboto

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    Anthem is pretty funky:
    DLSS

    4K

    If you zoom in around the helmet on 4K you can see a crazy amount of temporal distortion that ruins the clarity.
    But if you zoom in on DLSS that problem is fairly not visible (though there are other issues when I look around)

    I'm not sure which one I would take. I would think the DLSS is filling in the image with better AA, but at some loss in detail here. And the author is wrong when you zoom in. DLSS is upscale, and it's clearly not sharper.

    But the edges are certainly better imo.
     
  6. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
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    The DLSS shot exhibits quite obvious ringing artifacts from the sharpening filter on top of the general loss of fine detail (the main point of UHD resolution).
     
  7. iroboto

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    The DLSS has other issues for sure.
    The game has a lot of artefacts in general however. I guess it's going to be a toss up of preference. Though with 4K, I want to see minute details, its the reason we paid a lot for it, so I'm not thinking this upscale technique is going to be paying dividends for an expensive display.
     
  8. MfA

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    DLSS reminds me of bilateral filtering.
     
  9. iroboto

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    It's way better than bilateral filtering. Bilateral is nearly full loss of every bit of detail. Perhaps good for making outlines.
     
  10. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    It's not, it would hurt the performance. Jarnis from UL Benchmarks estimated the DLSS hit at same resolution to be around 10 %. Only way DLSS improves performance is by lowering the rendering resolution.
     
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  11. pharma

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    https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/128900-nvidia-dlss-nvidia-highlights-come-anthem/
     
  12. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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  13. AlBran

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    Side question: At what DPI would the two be somewhat imperceptible in motion or to most people?
     
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  14. iroboto

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    In motion? Oh dear. probably 1080p to be honest. Most 4K TV sets do not have 4K motion resolution
     
  15. AlBran

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    Let's say for computer desktop monitors, which can have varying PPI/DPI (90-140ppi?)
     
  16. BRiT

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    Over 9000!
     
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  17. AlBran

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    Beyond retinAl. :embarrased:
     
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  18. iroboto

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    Having a high refresh rate will on your monitor will truly matter here. If you have a cheap ass monitor and it's incapable of delivering high refresh rates (or it's really dark in colour), you're not going to get the clarity in motion. 75 Hz is just not enough. Not enough to make out minute details if you're running 60fps. You're going to need the 120Hz range to really see fine clarity in motion.

    Then we get into LODs etc. TLDR; It's really hard to drive 4K, I just don't see us moving past 4K for a long time. Without higher refresh rates, it really is pointless to go to anything above 4K.
     
    #418 iroboto, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  19. AlBran

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    Well, I guess my point is that we're analyzing images here where it's clear that it's not very clear @ 100% on whatever screens we're using too.

    The LODs for a few items are notably different (puddles/trees etc) for sure.
     
  20. iroboto

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    Yea it's really splitting hairs. Most people will take the frame rate boost, that's appreciably more frame rate vs the loss on detail, especially in motion.
    unless you had a lot of horsepower where native is concerned, I would DLSS.

    https://www.blurbusters.com/blur-bu...000hz-displays-with-blurfree-sample-and-hold/
     
    #420 iroboto, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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