NPD Nov. You know you want it!

[Acert93]

Seems to me that you guys over complicate the situation. It seems as though PS3 owners are waiting for something better.

And traditionally while gamers wait for something better they buy the best what is out now. 360 gamers didn't pass over Oblivion while they waited for ME or pass over Gears of War while they waited for Halo 3.

And even if what you say is true... they better rethink things quick. First Sony for not releasing the "better" software... and second consumers need to rethink the idea that they buy a $600 console and then wait on software to justify it.

As i said before, r&c never did crazy numbers, lair was not by any means a good game, and HS was haled as a GOW reject.

Saint's Row was a cheap GTA wannabe, Dead Rising a cheap Resident Evil reject, RPGs never did crazy numbers on the Xbox...

If I were a PS3 owner, I would be a little on the apprehensive side... Uncharted well enough. I wonder why? I have the game...

Was the rhetorical? Anyhow, since you are a PS3 owner, are you saying 1 year in Sony's exclusives don't resonate and the library is weak?

I wouldn't have shown it until they did either because once you saw one level, you saw them all.

Gamers don't typically know that. Most games you get a glimpse of one or two levels, and the press hands off the rest to reduce spoilers. But again, if this is a big reason (and I am not convinced as it hasn't impacted the other side of the fence), then this is a software quality issue... but I don't see PS3 fans saying R&C and Uncharted are average at best... instead that the PS3 has a great library.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I wouldn't call those games strong exclusives...

I'm sorry, but... WTF???

For the entire past two years, all that we've been reading here and on other forums has been "just wait for HS/Ratchet/Uncharted".
All these games have received good to very good reviews (7.5-8 for HS, 9-9.5 for the other two). These are, without doubt, the best games on the platform to this date.

So what are you calling strong exclusives? And for how long?

 

[Deepak]

1) About Wii's out of the blue gangbuster sales...Who does it (negatively) impact more? PS3 or 360?

2) Do you think the fact that MS has only one product in the market might prove a -ve in the long run, they don't have anything else to fall back on like Sony or Nintendo. Or bec'se they have only one product, they are focussing their energies on that product so it is infact a +ve for them.

3) Shouldn't console makers (Sony/Nintendo) focus on developing world, they can sell butloads of their (last gen) consoles provided the software price is affordable. How do you see this new market evolving in future?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

As i said before, r&c never did crazy numbers, lair was not by any means a good game, and HS was haled as a GOW reject. If I were a PS3 owner, I would be a little on the apprehensive side.

Ratchet games have traditionally sold very well, in the 2-3 million range.
Lair's a wreck, I've agreed with that from the start.
HS was never "haled as a GOW reject", I don't know where you get that.

 

[liolio]

Laa[/left]-

Yosh​

;1106892]Ratchet games have traditionally sold very well, in the 2-3 million range.
Lair's a wreck, I've agreed with that from the start.
HS was never "haled as a GOW reject", I don't know where you get that.

I agree

LaaYosh​

, all the aforementioned games were

hyped​

to death and had

supposedly​

pretty impressive budget.

 

[archangelmorph]

Sony's worst kept secret is out:

It seems the vast majority of PS3 owners actually bought the console soley for Locoroco: Coccorecho..



Seriously though, maybe they're too busy playing Wii..?

Maybe they're too scared to buy anything because they've been brainwashed into thinking it'll be a "poor quality port" anyways..?

Maybe most PS3 owners buy second-hand games..?

Maybe 5 million PS3s were bought to be sold again on ebay..?

Maybe they're all being used for folding..?

Maybe...


(The possibilities are endless!!)

EDIT:

Personally I think Sony's biggest problem is the sheer lack of Eastern support (in terms of more Japanese-centric software).. Heck I think that's everyone's problem at the moment with very few games coming from well respected Japanese development houses across all platforms..

If you look at the PS2 they had droves and droves of Japanese developed IP whereas currently, nobody does.. Nintendo is getting their slowly but it seems that all the big name Japanese houses are more concerned about developing either casual games or western-centric IP (Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Dark Void, Bionic Commando etc..) whils't forgetting that alot of the appeal of games like ZOE2, Suikoden, Breath of Fire, Brave Fencer, Disgaea, Front Mission, Otogi, .Hack, Valkyrie Profile, Shadow Hearts, Fatal Frame, Tales Of etc. are what really put the PS2 (& PSX) up their as (a) platform(s) with the broadest possible libraries..

Personally I've been waiting since the initial announcements of the 360 & PS3, for a swathe of Japanese dev projects surfacing but so far there seems to be very few announced & even fewer currently available..

 

[DUALDISASTER]

I'm sorry, but... WTF???

For the entire past two years, all that we've been reading here and on other forums has been "just wait for HS/Ratchet/Uncharted".
All these games have received good to very good reviews (7.5-8 for HS, 9-9.5 for the other two). These are, without doubt, the best games on the platform to this date.

So what are you calling strong exclusives? And for how long?

You can't tell me you weren't a little disappoited with HS. And you guys weren't dicussing gameplay elements in uncharted. It was about the graphics. Pretty games isn't all people look for. And besides, Uncharted wasn't discussed at all until recently. Only r&c which i'll say again, platformer are not sell will in this day and age.

 

[assen]

3) Shouldn't console makers (Sony/Nintendo) focus on developing world, they can sell butloads of their (last gen) consoles provided the software price is affordable.

The developing world doesn't pay hard cash for software, period. The developing world buys a NES clone with two controllers, a light gun and 200 games included for 10 EUR.

 

[DUALDISASTER]

Ratchet games have traditionally sold very well, in the 2-3 million range.
Lair's a wreck, I've agreed with that from the start.
HS was never "haled as a GOW reject", I don't know where you get that.

Yea, with 60 million userbase. HS was always pined as the goddess of war.

 

[DUALDISASTER]

Sony's worst kept secret is out:

It seems the vast majority of PS3 owners actually bought the console soley for Locoroco: Coccorecho..



Seriously though, maybe they're too busy playing Wii..?

Maybe they're too scared to buy anything because they've been brainwashed into thinking it'll be a "poor quality port" anyways..?

Maybe most PS3 owners buy second-hand games..?

Maybe 5 million PS3s were bought to be sold again on ebay..?

Maybe they're all being used for folding..?

Maybe...


(The possibilities are endless!!)

I know you're joking but, "Maybe they're too scared to buy anything because they've been brainwashed into thinking it'll be a "poor quality port" anyways..? " may have some truth...

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Well, as anecdotal stuff, two of my collegues have bought a PS3 recently.

One has Ratchet, loves it. Doesn't care about Uncharted at all.
Wants to buy COD4 but all the MediaMarkts and such have already sold out.
Had a PS2, liked it, Ratchet, Jak, GOW and so were his favorites.

The other guy already has COD4 and I think Splinter Cell Double Agent. Doesn't care about HS, Ratchet, maybe about Uncharted (I'll ask him).

They both think that there aren't really many games on the PS3 yet, so they got it for future potential as well.

 

[Deepak]

The developing world doesn't pay hard cash for software, period. The developing world buys a NES clone with two controllers, a light gun and 200 games included for 10 EUR.

But without growing living standards, the gaming market is bound to grow. BTW I was taking about last gen consoles (PS2 etc as GC/XB are not in production), Sony already makes profit on it. Even if software doesn't sell too well they can still sell hardware (in the processing creating mindshare among gamers which might benefit them in long term). I think a Rs 5k (@ ~ $ 120) Playstation 2 (which doubles up as a DVD player) should do well here (decent DVD players cost here around 3-4k)...and maybe with games @ 400 Rs (~ $ 10) might seem tempting to lots of people despite rampant piracy.

I think likes of PSP/DS also can do very well for example here in India if properly advertised. PSP's official price is ~ 9k Rs (~ $ 225), and I bought my new mobile for 9.5k. I was seriously thinking of getting a PSP but then I had to get a new mobile. PSP could/should sell here even on its media functionalities...the middle class here is crazy about gadgets, you just have make it look cool and create hype. Isn't DS cheaper than PSP...but then N have their hands full right now.

 

[mrcorbo]

I know you're joking but, "Maybe they're too scared to buy anything because they've been brainwashed into thinking it'll be a "poor quality port" anyways..? " may have some truth...

Well, let's see. Multiplatform games COD4, AC and before that Madden '08 which would be games that could actually inspire the fear of a "poor quality port" (and in the case of Madden it was definitely inferior on the PS3) sell proportionally well. First party exclusives which by definition aren't ports in any way sell poorly. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[archangelmorph]

Well, as anecdotal stuff, two of my collegues have bought a PS3 recently.

One has Ratchet, loves it. Doesn't care about Uncharted at all.
Wants to buy COD4 but all the MediaMarkts and such have already sold out.
Had a PS2, liked it, Ratchet, Jak, GOW and so were his favorites.

The other guy already has COD4 and I think Splinter Cell Double Agent. Doesn't care about HS, Ratchet, maybe about Uncharted (I'll ask him).

They both think that there aren't really many games on the PS3 yet, so they got it for future potential as well.

So going by that point, wouldn't you say it could be likely that many gamers arten't buying many of these games due to awareness?

To be honest, this generation has been the worst so far with respect to the media propagated mindshare that "it's all about the exclusives". I've never before seen people so caught up in this idea that exclusives are all that matters, that even some of the most amazing games on platforms go overlooked because either aren't exclusive (Ninja Gaiden Sigma comes to mind..) or apparently run a bit better on a separate platform you may (or may not own)..

I mean, sure some of the PS3 ports to date haven't been up to snuff to their 360 counterparts but this rarely stopped these kinds of games getting critically recieved on the back of their own merit in the past on older platforms (Xbox, PS2, GameCube etc..)

I think the "contemporary" consumer mindshare with respect to the PS3 "not having enough good games" coupled with the idea that all multiplatform titles released on the console are "tard ports" is really hurting the overall state of PS3 software sales since it would be pretty hard for these kinds of ideas to not propagate into the mainstream consumer view when its heard, read spoken of on every gamesite & mag, about every game on the platform..

Overall it's a difficult issue to solve because let's face it, your never going to be able to prevent developers from making bad ports IF they just don't have the resources to do any better, & it seems that no amount of effort Sony puts into developing stellar first party IP in the area of both technical achievement & increasingly-movie-like production values seems to fall flat in the face of gamers who either don't care about that particular genre of game or are just not interested in buying the game they've spent the past several months cheerleading on the boards (for whatever reason..)

Other than promoting more Halo-like, 'manly' games, which seem to resonate well with the userbase (an idea which sales figures of COD4 & AC seem to have vindicated..), I'm really not sure what Sony can do to shake off the pre-conceptions they've held over their heads for so long & finally ramp up the software library to promote a broader appeal for their platform..

 

[Laa-Yosh]

They are pretty much aware of all titles. We have a common download folder, to keep up with the industry standards in artwork, and all the PS3 exclusives have gigabytes of movies accumulated from gametrailers and gamersyde. I'd say that's exactly why they don't care - they've seen how the games look and play and can tell that if it looks interesting or not.

 

[AlNom]

It does look that way too...I read somewhere ME wasn't doing well and completely over looked the first page.

For about two weeks of sales, I'd consider ME to be doing pretty well at the moment. It may not be sustainable due to poor marketing or target market, but I guess we'll see next month.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The 'PS3 exclusives selling the platform' argument doesn't hold any water at the moment. Well, it's a difficult thing to gauge. The exclusives aren't selling well, and are being beat out by cross platform titles. However, for all we know, the people buying AC on PS3 bought a PS3 for one exclusive title and then bought AC as well, and if it wasn't for that exclusive title they'd have got a 360 and then bought AC for that. Still, at this point I don't think the 'software diversity' card is panning out well for Sony. Seems that the market would rather have XB360 'hardcore' gaming or Wii 'casual' gaming and aren't interested yet in a platform that tries to straddle both (to an arguable degree which let's not argue here yet again!) PS3's sales pitch can't rely on exclusives. Their best bet is to sell it on broad flexible, and really push the extra non-gaming features as sales points rather than nice extras, and yet to also push the gaming side. Basically they need to spend the budget for advertising a console effectively, and also spend the budget for advertising a CE device, and drive home the mixed signals as all part of the same thing.

Has there ever been a turn within a single generation in this industry?

Has there ever been a generation when one console launched with last-gen graphics and gone on to continue to sell for 5+ years? Has there been a generation when one console launched with a radical and popular control scheme that wasn't copied by the rivals? Has there been a generation that appeared on the crest of new display technologies becoming mainstream and people wanting to make the most of those displays? Has there been a generation of consoles where the online infrastructure supported broad content delivery programs at a time when the masses were okay with buying download content?

Consoles have historically been an isolated industry, appealing to console gamers and no-one else. Potentially lots of things are changing over the coming years, that the console is moving in from the sidelines of gaming to be a centre-stage CE device. I don't know if it'll happen, but when you think about the ubiquity of TVs and DVD players, it's clear consoles aren't anything like that market. If a console can become the equal to those mainstream devices, it'll eclipse previous console sales. That to me is what Sony were aiming for - not just a console for playing games and appealing to the existing, slowly growing console market, but an entertainment device to dominate the living room. It might never happen, but if it does and they manage to turn around their confused product positioning from 'not quite anything' into 'you gotta have this box', they would have a chance at selling great guns; at running in from the back of the pack.

Again, I'm not saying they will. Only that's what we should be looking for here. PS3 clearly wasn't designed as a box just for winning over the console market; Sony slapped a $200 drive in there that sky-rocketed their price, and beautifully engineered the machine to be quieter than most CE devices! If they just wanted the console gaming space they could have made far better decisions. For the HD all-in-one living-room entertainment box though, they are better positioned than anyone. That market is in its infancy and in truth may never actually appear, what with companies predicting its appearance for years and years to no avail. We can't measure PS3's performance though until we've seen what happens with that market and how the other boxes fit in too.

 

[archangelmorph]

EDIT:

Personally I think Sony's biggest problem is the sheer lack of Eastern support (in terms of more Japanese-centric software).. Heck I think that's everyone's problem at the moment with very few games coming from well respected Japanese development houses across all platforms..

If you look at the PS2 they had droves and droves of Japanese developed IP whereas currently, nobody does.. Nintendo is getting their slowly but it seems that all the big name Japanese houses are more concerned about developing either casual games or western-centric IP (Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Dark Void, Bionic Commando etc..) whils't forgetting that alot of the appeal of games like ZOE2, Suikoden, Breath of Fire, Brave Fencer, Disgaea, Front Mission, Otogi, .Hack, Valkyrie Profile, Shadow Hearts, Fatal Frame, Tales Of etc. are what really put the PS2 (& PSX) up their as (a) platform(s) with the broadest possible libraries..

Personally I've been waiting since the initial announcements of the 360 & PS3, for a swathe of Japanese dev projects surfacing but so far there seems to be very few announced & even fewer currently available..

Looks like maybe there could be a deeper reason for this..

Probably deserves it's own thread for discussion though..

 

[Acert93]

arch, that is an interesting (and slightly unrelated) link. I know this was discussed some back in 2004, namely the connection that US developers working with the Xbox were getting a taste of shaders and that many were doing development on the PC side as well which gave them a leg up on some of the more advanced techniques and gave their teams an oppurtunities to build tools and systems that modern GPUs require to make good use of them. Dare I say working with the PS2 with the EE and especially GS is quite divergent from working with RSX and Xenos. But yeah, that is a different discussion.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Looks like maybe there could be a deeper reason for this..

There's been a lot of talk about this in the past few years, actually. I still suggest reading a bit of the Japanmanship blog, it's very informative, and goes to show just how limited and wrong our views about Japanese game development are.