Nintendo Announces Dual-Screen Portable

[Guden Oden]

It also had a rudimentary pixel shader in its rasteriser, but it was weak, slow, and complicated.

...And absolutely NOTHING ever used it, as far as I've been able to tell, using just my own eyes.

Anyway, part of the slowness might have to do with the poor fillrate of the 3D hardware. N64 sure wasn't no drawing demon, that's for sure. Its trilinear looks rather purty though, especially in hires.

AFAIR T&L was done entirely on the host r4300i, though.

T&L is done entirely on the RSP (Reality Signal Processor) I believe, of which the vector unit is a part of. Other part of the RSP was another R4xxx core, or a stripped/modified core which ran the fabled "microcode", which in reality seems to be little more but the standard MIPS instruction set from what I've read. It's also the reason high-level emulation of many games is possible of the N64; the "microcode" used to T&L polygons are replaced by 3D API calls instead on the host PC. Many N64 games apparantly use Nintendo-supplied libraries for this, making emulation even easier. Seems Nintendo was unwilling to expose the RSP to 3rd parties until relatively late in the console's lifespan, for some silly reason...

 

[Fox5]

It also had a rudimentary pixel shader in its rasteriser, but it was weak, slow, and complicated.

...And absolutely NOTHING ever used it, as far as I've been able to tell, using just my own eyes.

Anyway, part of the slowness might have to do with the poor fillrate of the 3D hardware. N64 sure wasn't no drawing demon, that's for sure. Its trilinear looks rather purty though, especially in hires.

AFAIR T&L was done entirely on the host r4300i, though.

T&L is done entirely on the RSP (Reality Signal Processor) I believe, of which the vector unit is a part of. Other part of the RSP was another R4xxx core, or a stripped/modified core which ran the fabled "microcode", which in reality seems to be little more but the standard MIPS instruction set from what I've read. It's also the reason high-level emulation of many games is possible of the N64; the "microcode" used to T&L polygons are replaced by 3D API calls instead on the host PC. Many N64 games apparantly use Nintendo-supplied libraries for this, making emulation even easier. Seems Nintendo was unwilling to expose the RSP to 3rd parties until relatively late in the console's lifespan, for some silly reason...

Erm, can you give an example of a game that used trilinear? Nearly every n64 game I've seen(except maybe the early ones which had few details) was extremely blurry.

 

[Natoma]

Wow this is really, uhm, odd. This really does sound like Virtual Boy: Redux. :?

 

[Megadrive1988]

didn't read entire thread, sorry if already posted...

http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6086771.html

Nintendo: DS not Game Boy Advance's successor


Japanese game giant clarifies its new double-screen gaming system's marketplace role.

TOKYO--In an interview conducted by Bloomberg Japan, Nintendo confirmed that the Nintendo DS, its newly announced portable dual-screen gaming system, is not being created to take over the Game Boy Advance's market. The company also confirmed that a separate machine is being developed as a next-generation successor for the GBA. According to Nintendo's public relations chief Yasuhiro Minagawa, "The development of succeeding machines for the GBA and Game Cube are in the works, separately from the Nintendo DS."


Nintendo's comments support their previous statements that they aim to release a new machine that is different from existing game devices. However, that doesn't completely rule out the possibility of the Nintendo DS having backwards compatibility to the GBA; the 32-bit ARM7 chip used as the CPU on the GBA is also used as the sub-processor on the Nintendo DS.

By Hirohiko Niizumi, GameSpot [POSTED: 01/21/04 11:42 AM]

 

[Clashman]

Yup, it was already posted.

 

[Wunderchu]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13740

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=2847

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/january04/nintendods

http://cube.ign.com/articles/473/473998p1.html

 

[Clashman]

GI Online Interviews NOA's Beth Llewelyn About The Nintendo DS:
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200401/N04.0121.1808.42530.htm

Check it out.

 

[nobie]

Ahh! You’re going to ask me to do math! I’m gonna have to figure that one out.

holy crap, Nintendo is doomed

 

[cthellis42]

*pulls string on Barbie's back* Math is hard!

 

[PC-Engine]

I think what a lot of people here don't realize is that in small screens submenus that are not fullscreen are way too small to be of any use on a portable ie realtime maps.

 

[StefanS]

Billy: Last year ATI announced that they were working with Nintendo on the graphics chips for their next generation systems. Is ATI doing the graphics chipset for the DS?

Beth:  We haven't announced specifically who were working with on this system, outside of ARM.  That's really all we can say on that.

So there's still possibility of a decent 3d chip for DS?

 

[V3]

Clashman,

But that's the same as ragging on someone with a 17" screen on their laptop because you have a 21" CRT on your desktop. It's irrelevant, because as far as laptops go you can't get any bigger. Apples and Oranges, you know.

You don't get what I mean. I already said if its about size I'll buy that reason, but Nintendo in their press release doesn't talk about size they bragged Dual Screen as the second coming of gaming. I was disgusted with that.

And beside we are not talking about 17" or 21" screen

This is 3" LCD size, its a small thing. You can combine two of it into one and still fit in the palm of your hand.

Heck, if this DS still has good battery life, why don't they do Nintendo Tripple Screen for surround portable gaming. Then they can brag about it.

But as far as this Dual Screen goes, its a Nintendo PR spin. Unless the screen is a special screen where you can overlap them or pull them apart and rearrange them, One bigger screen (which still small mind you) will serve the same purpose as far as gameplay goes and its a superior solution.

Nintendo is always looking for this "third pillar" Virtual Boy & 64DD were all devices that suppose to give an injection to videogames, They haven't succeed yet.

To anyone,
Another thing is this thing a handheld or just another portable device ?

 

[V3]

I think what a lot of people here don't realize is that in small screens submenus that are not fullscreen are way too small to be of any use on a portable ie realtime maps.

Why are you jabbing the GBA ? We don't need a flame war on that thank you. Its best to avoid

 

[V3]

So there's still possibility of a decent 3d chip for DS?

I would say yes. But still even with subpar 3d solution, it would probably offer something better than N64. And most of Nintendo games are cartoony anyway, so theirs will no doubt look appealling on anything really.

 

[PC-Engine]

I think what a lot of people here don't realize is that in small screens submenus that are not fullscreen are way too small to be of any use on a portable ie realtime maps.

Why are you jabbing the GBA ? We don't need a flame war on that thank you. Its best to avoid

Well what I was trying to say was that it makes sense to have a second screen for realtime maps etc. because with only one screen you can't really have a detailed realtime map ie corner of a small screen. Moving the map to a separate fullscreen would help in this specific situation allowing uninterupted gameplay. Since Nintendo has said this technology gives a hint a the next GCN...my guess is that the GCN2 might have color LCD goggles as an accessory? Maybe this device is configured as a handheld controller unit with LCD goggles?

 

[rabidrabbit]

...
Well what I was trying to say was that it makes sense to have a second screen for realtime maps etc. because with only one screen you can't really have a detailed realtime map ie corner of a small screen. Moving the map to a separate fullscreen would help in this specific situation allowing uninterupted gameplay. Since Nintendo has said this technology gives a hint a the next GCN...my guess is that the GCN2 might have color LCD goggles as an accessory? Maybe this device is configured as a handheld controller unit with LCD goggles?

You mean in GC2 the game plays in tv, you get additional information (maps, status..) on LCD goggles that you are wearing, and even on the Dual Screen GameBoy that you are using as contoller... you might even wear a headphone +mic to give / receive additional commands...

!!!SENSORY OVERLOAD!!!!

 

[StefanS]

But as far as this Dual Screen goes, its a Nintendo PR spin. Unless the screen is a special screen where you can overlap them or pull them apart and rearrange them, One bigger screen (which still small mind you) will serve the same purpose as far as gameplay goes and its a superior solution.

That reminds me of the old Bandai LCD games with 2 semitransparent LCD screens which could be combined...

I would say yes. But still even with subpar 3d solution, it would probably offer something better than N64. And most of Nintendo games are cartoony anyway, so theirs will no doubt look appealling on anything really.

Well, I guess Nintendo isn't opting for a lot more graphical prowess than N64. Their gaming media is 128 MB big. So there's no need for displaying hi-res textures, etc... as we won't see multi catridge games.

 

[Guden Oden]

Erm, can you give an example of a game that used trilinear?

I can do better than that, I can name three. There are undoubtedly more, but these are off the top of my head: Turok: Dinosaur Hunter, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark.

Nearly every n64 game I've seen(except maybe the early ones which had few details) was extremely blurry.

Trilinear doesn't help with the blurriness, that comes from the small texture sizes used on the N64 (the RDP had a 4k texture memory which had to fit the ENTIRE texture, including any mipmaps). However, it does help with the "crawling ants" syndrome where pixels wink in and out due to undersampling. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark has almost no crawling ants at all, they looks very smooth (if blurry). Turok only uses trilinear on some surfaces, including ground textures.

Shadowman on the other hand is a game that doesn't use trilinear or even mipmapping on anything, and you see a startling difference in IQ as well. Everything is much much grainier.

 

[Teasy]

In that quote above Nintendo seem to hint that the DS will have a GPU to go with the ARM processors. Considering ARM licensed PowerVR MBX to pair with their mobile processors their is a good chance of seeing MBX in the Nintendo DS. In which case, graphically, it could possibly compete with PSP, even if the device itself isn't aimed at competing with PSP.

 

[jandar]

GI Online Interviews NOA's Beth Llewelyn About The Nintendo DS:
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200401/N04.0121.1808.42530.htm

Check it out.

Billy: The press release also stated that there’s two separate 3â€￾ TFT LCD screens on the DS. Are those 3â€￾ actually square or could that mean the screens are 3â€￾ high, but could have a wide screen?



Beth: They are 3" diagonal -- so a little bit bigger than GBA screens.



Billy: I also read that developers can use both screens as one if they so choose.


Beth: Yes, you can use the two screens as one big monitor. I think it’s one of those things that the developer will have the freedom to do what they want to do.



Billy: Will the screens be side-by-side, or vertical? Also, will the screens be set right next to each other or will they be separate, much like the classic Game & Watch designs?



Beth: The will be in the vertical position.


so 2 3" diganonal screens side by side.