Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[Rodéric]

Although unlikely, isn't AMD new Polaris targeting embedded devices/laptops first ?

 

[Rangers]

2016 release doesn't seem likely when we dont have a single credible leak regarding performance (unless you count old rumors of it being weaksauce, which I do). Either that or it's no new tech at all...

Basically we know nothing...if AMD is working on it I think we would have leaks for sure.

 

[TheLump]

Have you a quote? It'd be very interesting if we some semi-official word on wanting an 'upgradable/forwards compatible console' as per one of our threads on the matter.

Not those exact words, but I feel we can infer something along those lines from this:

Originally Posted by Genyo Takeda (Senior Managing Director, Technology Fellow:

　I understand that, thanks to the evolution of computer technology, aiming to realize a virtualized software development environment that does not depend on specific hardware is becoming the technological norm today. Simultaneously, regarding input and output technologies, I believe that it is also in line with the current technological trend that Nintendo should challenge itself with the creation of a unique user interface.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/151029qa/02.html


And below, where amongst other things and whilst discussing multiple hardware 'form factors', Iwata specifically names Apple IOS and Android as examples of models they are aspiring to.

Iwata:
Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html

 

[Goodtwin]

Does AMD currently have any mobile processors that the NX chipset could likely be based upon, with the assumption the target performance is similar to Xbox One? I cant really seem to find anything in AMD's lineup that is similar to what Nvidia has with the Tegra X1. Nothing with the mind of performance per watt anyway.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Does AMD currently have any mobile processors that the NX chipset could likely be based upon, with the assumption the target performance is similar to Xbox One?

If you are talking CPU, then there's Puma+ being used in Carrizo-L (4W quad-core + iGPU) and a Cortex A57 license.

If you are talking SoC/APU, then no. Not even close.

 

[function]

Things will hopefully get a lot more interesting towards the middle of this year when AMDs laptop-targeting 14nm mobile GPUs come out.

I suppose it's possible that NIntendo have forked out for a custom 14nm APU for the end of this year, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Goodtwin]

Things will hopefully get a lot more interesting towards the middle of this year when AMDs laptop-targeting 14nm mobile GPUs come out.

I suppose it's possible that NIntendo have forked out for a custom 14nm APU for the end of this year, but I wouldn't bet on it.

This is a reasonable conclusion based on Nintendo's history, but I have hope that Nintendo is investing in the foundation for what will be many different pieces of hardware released over the next decade, so hopefully they decide on to go with tech that is going to evolve for years, instead of picking tech that is tried and true, but is being phased out.

 

[AlNom]

This is a reasonable conclusion based on Nintendo's history, but I have hope that Nintendo is investing in the foundation for what will be many different pieces of hardware released over the next decade, so hopefully they decide on to go with tech that is going to evolve for years, instead of picking tech that is tried and true, but is being phased out.

What do you mean by evolved? AMD has only so many resources, so I can't see them straying too far from what's already planned for GCN. Zen may not be ready, and Jaguar micro-arch may be EOL, but it'll still be around in the eyes of developers dealing with the other two consoles.

It remains to be seen how much of a custom job AMD can/would do for an ARM CPU, but I'm certainly not counting on anything as extensive as what Apple has done.

 

[Entropy]

Not those exact words, but I feel we can infer something along those lines from this:


https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/151029qa/02.html


And below, where amongst other things and whilst discussing multiple hardware 'form factors', Iwata specifically names Apple IOS and Android as examples of models they are aspiring to.


https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html

As usual, that Iwata quote is cut at a critical place. Because in his very next sentece he says:
"Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment."

Which changes things a bit.

 

[McHuj]

I'll be happy if AMD just provided Nintendo with a quad core ARM (57 or 72) coupled to a 0.75 - 1Tflop Polaris based GPU on 14nm. That would probably be a small chip ~100mm, low power, and a 128-bit bus with DDR4 could probably provide sufficient BW.

 

[TheLump]

As usual, that Iwata quote is cut at a critical place. Because in his very next sentece he says:
"Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment."

Which changes things a bit.

Not sure what you mean by "as usual", but I'll gloss over that

I don't think this changes things, how do you mean? Sounds like he's just fence sitting so as not to give their plans away. Not to mention you've cut the quote off yourself there.....

(In the very next sentence)

However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.

 

[Goodtwin]

What I mean by evolve is choosing a design that AMD plans to build upob for many years to come. You don't want a scenario where Legacy software and apps become a problem because future designs are incompatable. May not be a legit concern, but it was something I was considering. I can't wait till we have real details to discuss. Good of bad, its better than wild guesses.

 

[Entropy]

Not sure what you mean by "as usual", but I'll gloss over that

It is a quote often made by people arguing that Nintendo intends to release a plethora of devices.

I don't think this changes things, how do you mean? Sounds like he's just fence sitting so as not to give their plans away. Not to mention you've cut the quote off yourself there.....

Exactly. He is very non-comittal, so using his statement as an argument for a particular course of hardware action is dubious.
He does imply that there will be development for more than one device, but indicates that this could also simply be through a transition period. And he clearly indicates that this will be a business decision based on consumer trends.
I just don't see that Iwatas' statement says much in terms of future Nintendo hardware.

 

[TheLump]

It is a quote often made by people arguing that Nintendo intends to release a plethora of devices.

Exactly. He is very non-comittal, so using his statement as an argument for a particular course of hardware action is dubious.
He does imply that there will be development for more than one device, but indicates that this could also simply be through a transition period. And he clearly indicates that this will be a business decision based on consumer trends.
I just don't see that Iwatas' statement says much in terms of future Nintendo hardware.

I don't think they are going to release a plethora of devices at all. Rather, they are creating a development platform that will allow them to develop for new devices as they are released (a la Android/iOS). And I'm just trying to get a picture of what they might be up to - I've no vested interest either way

That one sentence where he basically says "but we'll see, based on consumer trends" I think is referring to whether they will have a handheld AND a console, or one device.

I think taking that 2014 statement as a whole, plus Takeda's more recent comments (my other link) regarding a "virtualized software developent environment that does not depend on specific hardware" etc, it's not an unreasonable assumption to think they are looking at forwards compatability of hardware (which is the question i was answering with my post)

Also noteworthy from that Takeda link (where they are answering a question about how they will cope not only with integrating their dedicated game system architecture but also their smart device offerings):

Miyamoto:
　Since the Famicom age, it had often been the case that the software developers who were able to thoroughly comprehend the unique techniques to develop software on unique hardware environments were able to create quality software. Now that anyone with a certain level of knowledge can create applications and especially those for smart devices, we would like to deploy a development environment that eliminates waste as much as possible and is applicable to a variety of devices.

It's by no means a certainty - but I'm not making a huge logical leap in this hypothesis I don't think.
I'd encourage anyone to read both those links in full as they talk quite candidly about their future plans.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't think they are going to release a plethora of devices at all. Rather, they are creating a development platform that will allow them to develop for new devices as they are released (a la Android/iOS).

This comparison implies frequent (annual) updates. I'm guessing that's not your intention? That's what I thought you were saying when I requested the quote though.

 

[TheLump]

This comparison implies frequent (annual) updates. I'm guessing that's not your intention? That's what I thought you were saying when I requested the quote though.

Ah I see sorry, I misunderstood. No I definitely don't think they will be anywhere near annual. Perhaps more frequent is a possibility - but I don't think they've said anything that implies that imo.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I'll be happy if AMD just provided Nintendo with a quad core ARM (57 or 72) coupled to a 0.75 - 1Tflop Polaris based GPU on 14nm. That would probably be a small chip ~100mm, low power, and a 128-bit bus with DDR4 could probably provide sufficient BW.

I don't think it could. The XBone has a 1.1 TFLOP/s GPU and a 256bit bus using 2133 DDR3 + eDRAM. That's 68GB/s + 2*100GB/s.
128bit DDR4 using even some rather expensive 3200MHz chips would amount to ~51GB/s. Considering how that's shared with the CPU, it doesn't sound like a very balanced situation.

 

[TheLump]

I don't think it could. The XBone has a 1.1 TFLOP/s GPU and a 256bit bus using 2133 DDR3 + eDRAM. That's 68GB/s + 2*100GB/s.
128bit DDR4 using even some rather expensive 3200MHz chips would amount to ~51GB/s. Considering how that's shared with the CPU, it doesn't sound like a very balanced situation.

HBM to the rescue?

(we can dream)

 

[AlNom]

I don't think it could. The XBone has a 1.1 TFLOP/s GPU and a 256bit bus using 2133 DDR3 + eDRAM. That's 68GB/s + 2*100GB/s.
128bit DDR4 using even some rather expensive 3200MHz chips would amount to ~51GB/s. Considering how that's shared with the CPU, it doesn't sound like a very balanced situation.

Well, main memory bandwidth isn't the end-all-be-all, so it'll depend on how AMD improves the architecture/design (e.g. cache hierarchy). Maxwell gets away with relatively modest bandwidth IIRC.

Also, there are the bandwidth compression schemes to consider as well.

It does seem a bit tight though.

 

[function]

Esram?

There's a GPU vendor out there with a 16 ROP / 32MB template just lying around ...