NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[AlNom]

I know this has been answered before. With next gen starting, is there any way to remove shader alias, like the distracting shimmering in GT5, completely ?

There's LEAN/CLEAN mapping for specular, for example.

 

[arijoytunir]

ROPS and render BW are one area where the Durango might actually have some SS to help mitigate the less ripped hardware:



So it looks like the esram is intended (or at least suggested) for buffers, and the low latency nature of it should help with effective fill. Also:



Hooray! Subsamples live on, even if in a bastardised form! Take that pixel popping post process AA!

Of course, maybe the PS4 will have this too ...

So how does it compares to ps4's gpu ?

 

[Love_In_Rio]

So how does it compares to ps4's gpu ?

See pc benchmarks of AMD HD7770 vs AMD HD7850 and you will see better.

 

[arijoytunir]

See pc benchmarks of AMD HD7770 vs AMD HD7850 and you will see better.

So it's effectively a hd 7770 ? No secret sauce !!

 

[Love_In_Rio]

So it's effectively a hd 7770 ? No secret sauce !!

At the moment no. We´ll see tomorrow. It´s strange that in the today´s leak there is no sign of HSA.

 

[patsu]

There's LEAN/CLEAN mapping for specular, for example.

Cool, has it been used in any game yet ?

At the moment no. We´ll see tomorrow. It´s strange that in the today´s leak there is no sign of HSA.

Perhaps the CPU or a coprocessor can help out (in an effective manner) !

 

[Ruskie]

Well, nothing that we didn't expect. 33% less flops, 50% less ROPs, 50% less texture units etc. all that versus Orbis that doesn't sound great in the first place.

 

[Gubbi]

Well, nothing that we didn't expect. 50% less flops, 50% less ROPs, 50% less texture units etc. all that versus Orbis that doesn't sound great in the first place.

33% less.

Cheers

 

[Prophecy2k]

Well, nothing that we didn't expect. 33% less flops, 50% less ROPs, 50% less texture units etc. all that versus Orbis that doesn't sound great in the first place.

Fixed before you get crucified for that bro ;-)

 

[Mianca]

If all the rumoured specs are true, I really don't understand how Durango is supposed to end up similar to Orbis in real-world GPU performance.

33% less shader power and 50% less ROPs will be hard to counterbalance by any kind of additional helpers.

That being said, I actually think that games have started reaching a "saturation point" of looking "good enough" with the current generation, i.e. further advances in graphics won't be as important to sell games down the road as advances in general game design and new kinds of gaming experiences will be. Microsoft's and Sony's respective visions of how to evolve the gaming experience with (more or less interesting) peripherals will probably be way more important than theoretical compute power.

I really wonder what Sony and Microsoft have in store in THAT respect.

 

[Ruskie]

Fixed before you get crucified for that bro ;-)

I got on roll with "50%" so I forgot about my math.

Anyway, GPU sounds super whack but if PS4 is actually 14CUs GPU, then it might actually be close.

 

[babybumb]

Microsoft is trying to sell it from the start to casuals. New and improved kinect.. i doubt its a good plan.

Windows8 apps will run easily but Windows8 needs a major rework

 

[Bagel seed]

Perhaps the CPU or a coprocessor can help out (in an effective manner) !

Their Jags are supposed to be double the flops right?

That being said, I actually think that games have started reaching a "saturation point" of looking "good enough" with the current generation, i.e. further advances in graphics won't be as important to sell games down the road as advances in general game design and new kinds of gaming experiences will be. Microsoft's and Sony's respective visions of how to evolve the gaming experience with (more or less interesting) peripherals will probably be way more important than theoretical compute power.

Diminishing returns already?

When I can slip on a 1080p Occulus Rift v2 and stand around inside the world of Avatar I'll start thinking about that phrase. Everyone raves about Occulus the way it is now, even with low res stuff.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Anyway, GPU sounds super whack but if PS4 is actually 14CUs GPU, then it might actually be close.

Only if Microsoft has some special sauce for the CPU. Modern graphics are full of computing heavy tasks. The 14+4 setup rumored for Orbis would still be a significant advantage for Sony since Durango would have to utilize some resources of its 12 CU GPU to do the computing for object occlusion, depth of field, lens flare, motion blur, bokeh and other bread-and-butter effects of DirectX11 level of graphics.

 

[Prophecy2k]

If all the rumoured specs are true, I really don't understand how Durango is supposed to end up similar to Orbis in real-world GPU performance.

33% less shader power and 50% less ROPs will be hard to counterbalance by any kind of additional helpers.

That being said, I actually think that games have started reaching a "saturation point" of looking "good enough" with the current generation, i.e. further advances in graphics won't be as important to sell games down the road as advances in general game design and new kinds of gaming experiences will be. Microsoft's and Sony's respective visions of how to evolve the gaming experience with (more or less interesting) peripherals will probably be way more important than theoretical compute power.

I really wonder what Sony and Microsoft have in store in THAT respect.

I think that whoever believes this is going to end up with their tail between their legs when another guys comes along with an uber power box and cleans up the 50-70 million global hardcore gamerbase.

HW power is still important, and we haven't yet reached anywhere near "good enough" when it comes to video game visuals interms of realism and simulation. There's a lot more that these boxes can do in future that will significantly benefit games, and none of it revolves around gimmicky control schemes and crappy superfluous stuff like projecting crap around your TV and smell-o-vision.

Material properties, fluid/cloth/soft body physics, AI, world and behavioural simulation, environmental destructivity, real-time precedural content creation, global illumination etc etc, are all things that are poorly lacking in video games today. These are all things that would benefit games incredibly, in terms of the level of realism and interactivity afforded players. These things require HW performance to make them a reality, and the company that cedes the pursuit completely of these for sh!tty kinect-handwaving and digital clip-on weener-sensors doesn't derserve a position in the games industry imho.

I get that this time MS and Sony were forced to create consoles that would end up less than the conventional expected generational increase, especially being on the wrong side of the cusp of brand new game-changing chip design and manufacturing technologies, as well as global socio-economic factors (aka the recession), however i wouldn't like to see them continue this trend the next time round (and yes I do believe there will be a next time round after PS4ango - streamings a farce).

 

[Proelite]

So it's effectively a hd 7770 ? No secret sauce !!

Esram + DME, not the same as 7770.

 

[anexanhume]

At the moment no. We´ll see tomorrow. It´s strange that in the today´s leak there is no sign of HSA.

To be fair GPU won the poll. Memory was a different poll choice as were the data move engines.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Only if Microsoft has some special sauce for the CPU. Modern graphics are full of computing heavy tasks. The 14+4 setup rumored for Orbis would still be a significant advantage for Sony since Durango would have to utilize some resources of its 12 CU GPU to do the computing for object occlusion, depth of field, lens flare, motion blur, bokeh and other bread-and-butter effects of DirectX11 level of graphics.

Even ignoring that the remaining 4 CUs on Orbis can be used for rendering, Liverpool still has 2 x the ROPs of Durango.

Durango must have some very serious and very secret sauciness to overcome that.

 

[Scott_Arm]

There's no doubt that Orbis has a significant power advantage on the GPU side and it should lead to noticeably better visuals. I guess MS is banking on Durango being "good enough." It will definitely be much better than than 360, so it isn't the Wii case where it showed little improvement over the Gamecube. I guess they're hoping the extra features and a "good enough" improvement in gaming performance will overall win over customers. And the price difference could be significant.

 

[patsu]

Esram + DME, not the same as 7770.

Are the hardware planes part of DME or something else ?