NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[liolio]

My personal feeling actually is that it's just the other way round.

I guess it depends on one own biases.

Overall this thread is useful as it allows to easily spot significantly biased people
The difference in the systems as depicted by the rumors do not lead me to believe that they will be a significant difference between the systems.
Pretty much for people that are interested in having the most potent system, do not have any brand loyalties, no attachment to specific IP, so they choose on power alone for now the ps4 seems like the way to go for them.

Though I think that those people represent at best a niche. Especially among techies, biases and brand loyalty seems to be pretty strong if that thread (among so many others here and elsewhere on the web) is any clue.

Actually one could assert that if somebody fill the above criteria (and as matching buying power), he would have long turned to PC gaming even though it is not as simple as that.

Anyway without even going there as Brit stated in another thread I think that people that buy a console disregarding the price, the brand are really few and those considerations (price and brand) are I would say stronger than technical merit of a given product.

As it is this thread is nothing more than a display of biases, we do not have all the most relevant at hand to make any valuable comparison, starting with price and what is included in the basic package, what does it do, etc.

People are assuming it is a ceteris paribus comparison, it could really well not be, we just don't know the details of MSFT and Sony business plan (price, sku, etc.) for those still undisclosed products.

It sounds a bit like lots of the comments if not still on going war between the compared technical merits of the 360 and ps3. I find it a bit irrelevant, it was not a ceteris paribus comparison for most of the time.
There different policies wrt online gaming, on one side a BRD player and another significant factor is that for a long while both systems were not even in the same price bracket.

I told it multiple times but it is a good example, I did not own a console during the ps2 era (be it xbox, ps2 or gamecube), I wanted a console so I can play without dumping quiet some money I did not have at the time in a new pc (mine was out dated =>agp x8 mobo => no go, all had to replaced / built from the ground).
I was not interested in either online gaming or BRD, I was on a budget (my wife offers the me the system but it is the same wrt budget), I'm more interested in Sony exclusives on average but when I bought (/my wife) the 360 with the fall season rebate it cost us 200 Euros, I think at this time the the ps3 was twice that price or close, hardly a ceteris paribus comparison, no matter the technical merits/ etc.

Imo this thread is a bit irrelevant, without further information it is a bit like comparing a HD 7870 and HD 7970 without any regard for the actual price of those products.

 

[ROG27]

It will depend on the side you are...

I don't think this fairly characterizes everyone.

For instance, I don't really have brand loyalty persay. I preferred the exclusive IPs on Sony's platforms in the past, but most of those IPs are now multiplatform. So, I just want the system which will have the best performing offerings for multiplatform games this upcoming generation, whether it be Microsoft's or Sony's (we know for sure it's certainly not going to be Nintendo's...that much is obvious).

 

[mrcorbo]

I don't think this fairly characterizes everyone.

For instance, I don't really have brand loyalty persay. I preferred the exclusive IPs on Sony's platforms in the past, but most of those IPs are now multiplatform. So, I just want the system which will have the best performing offerings for multiplatform games this upcoming generation, whether it be Microsoft's or Sony's (we know for sure it's certainly not going to be Nintendo's...that much is obvious).

My criteria will be different, because I have a PC for this. Performance on multiplatform titles will have almost no impact on my purchase decision this time around.

 

[djskribbles]

some people are nervy to admit that durango can be a good system, only PS is allowed to destroy all the rest. childish toughts.

Until Durango's so called 'secret sauce' is revealed in detail from reliable sources, for the most part, I think the people that feel Orbis is the more capable machine, based on the information that has been given, are justified to feel that way, and it's not childish fanboy talk.

 

[XpiderMX]

I don't think this fairly characterizes everyone.

For instance, I don't really have brand loyalty persay. I preferred the exclusive IPs on Sony's platforms in the past, but most of those IPs are now multiplatform. So, I just want the system which will have the best performing offerings for multiplatform games this upcoming generation, whether it be Microsoft's or Sony's (we know for sure it's certainly not going to be Nintendo's...that much is obvious).

Yes, me too, I love Halo and another Xbox IPs, but I don't have brand loyalty. But I'm mean the people who is "fighting" the console war, people "attack" with phrases like *oh, I hate all the "magic sauce" thing* or the another side too * but Durango have this *.

 

[MrFox]

It's funny, vgleaks has a poll asking which aspect of Durango we want to know more about, and they will release info about the winning part.
Quick everyone, go click DME, so we'll finally know if it's the same DME that's in modern AMD GPUs, or something else. Any other topic is boring.

 

[kagemaru]

lol @ the thread title change, I just noticed that.

 

[mrcorbo]

It's funny, vgleaks has a poll asking which aspect of Durango we want to know more about, and they will release info about the winning part.
Quick everyone, go click DME, so we'll finally know if it's the same DME that's in modern AMD GPUs, or something else. Any other topic is boring.

ERP says it's not.

 

[Scott_Arm]

All I want is for people to stop writing "secret sauce."

 

[anexanhume]

All I want is for people to stop writing "secret sauce."

Salsa Mysterioso

 

[upnorthsox]

I'm partial to Wizard's jizz myself

Edit:

That sounds wrong, just wrong.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

OMG, this thread has certainly gone to poo since the last time I popped in here. Ugh. Is this B3D still?

People fighting over rumors and close to name calling over specs that we have absolutely Zero idea are actually going to be representative of the final product?

The only thing we know is that we don't know enough information to make any definitive calls. Everything else is speculation at this point.

I agree, but it is "risky", you can't ignore a market as "hardcores", just look the Kinect games sales, it can't compare to Halo, Gears or Forza, while the best Kinect game sales are ~2M (just 2 or 3 games), the best core game sales are 4~5M.

If "core" gamers end choosing PS4, the third parties will not be happy.

Considering that both Sony and MS appear to be dedicating approximately the same BOM to peripherals and accessories make this a completely moot point. At least if we go by the current rumors. Orbis - dualshock, 2x camera, move controller. Durango - Xbox controller, Kinect 2.

I REALLY wish the internet/forum meme about Durango making sacrifices to support Kinect would die already. As at least according to the rumors, both consoles have a similar level of add in accessories.

All I want is for people to stop writing "secret sauce."

Yes. I'd also like to see people stop using the word jizz and other such immature language. One person [edit - well 2 people now] in particular seems to really love that word. What happened to the mature technical discussion that I come to B3D for?

Regards,
SB

 

[anexanhume]

Yes. I'd also like to see people stop using the word jizz and other such immature language. One person [edit - well 2 people now] in particular seems to really love that word. What happened to the mature technical discussion that I come to B3D for?

Regards,
SB

Look at the thread title. Mods have abandoned this one.

 

[dobwal]

You know what motivates the believers in "secret sauce"?

1.The general outlook prior to the current gen ran counter to the realities of we live in today. Cell created a ton of noise in terms of its supercomputer like performance potential, yet the difference between 360 and PS3 third party ports usually favor the 360 while PS3 has only created a gap with first/second title (even thats subjective). Given the past why shouldn't everyone be skeptical of whats being shown in terms of perceived gap in performance.

2.The main rumor surrounding the 720 is basically a console composed of whats equivalent to two apus on single die that individually are meant for tablets or low power notebooks and usually benchmarks against Intel IGP setups. If MS wanted to provide dev kits based on the rumored tech it could of took an a10 quad core and downclock to 3.2 ghz and paired it with a 7750 with half the CUs disabled. What is the point of MS going GCN if the setup would be too weak to take advantage of it in gaming. Northern Island tech would of sufficed as it would be cheaper requiring less silicon and transistors and still provides gpgpu functionality.

Just because a rumor is more fleshed out doesn't make it more reliable. And I am sure the lack of info will drive posters to take the littlest tidbit of information and turn it into the best thing that happen to gaming since the cpu was born.

This is all an exercise in entertaining ourselves through discussion on a mutal hobby so let the "secret sauce" entertain us as long as the lack of information is strong and the forum rules are followed.

 

[MrFox]

Look at the thread title. Mods have abandoned this one.

It's much more ecological than just deleting the posts. It feels like a Composting Bin, left freely running with it's destructive organic activity. Once in a while something fresh is dumped from another thread, to decompose slowly with it's already ongoing reactions, to be assimilated, feeding the internets.

It's beautiful, I hope it won't be deleted.

 

[function]

The flavours of sauce

Special sauce: ordinary sauce with redacted ingredients
Ordinary sauce: sauce, becomes old sauce
Old sauce: sauce that's losing flavour, can be used to make Weak Sauce and Cheap Sauce
Cheap sauce: can be used to make weak sauce
Weak sauce: often used to make Cheap Sauce, Wii U

 

[Averagejoe]

Considering that both Sony and MS appear to be dedicating approximately the same BOM to peripherals and accessories make this a completely moot point. At least if we go by the current rumors. Orbis - dualshock, 2x camera, move controller. Durango - Xbox controller, Kinect 2.

I REALLY wish the internet/forum meme about Durango making sacrifices to support Kinect would die already. As at least according to the rumors, both consoles have a similar level of add in accessories.



Regards,
SB

There is a difference..

It would be the 3rd time sony play with a camera on its console if they release one for the PS4,but they have never ever been the focus of sony's attention unlike Kinect and MS.

Even move sony keeps supporting it but they don't change their whole strategy for it.

For kinect to be successful it has to be build in,the same with move or any other dice,MS unlike sony look to be designing the 720 around Kinect,while sony doesn't appear to be going that route.

3GB is rumored for the OS,i think is to much but even if the total size is 2GB is still to big,MS is aiming for something way bigger than gaming it shows.

Today in Neogaf a poster claim that one of MS reps who has to do with skype and video conference,actually told him that the 720 would come with Kinect,and would use skype and other services as well.

I think video chat while playing or maybe something even bigger.

Sony looks like they are just pointing toward pure gaming,now this doesn't mean Orbis will be a better gaming platform in any way,for all we know MS could deliver some cutting edge social networking while playing videos games service that make PSN look like a joke..

We know nothing all are rumors,but they are louder and louder as we move on,maybe MS just got tire of playing the power gamer,or maybe they decide the xbox brand is mature enough for something bigger.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

There is a difference..

From the hardware cost perspective and hence BOM and hence sacrifices needed to be made for performance within budget, it is the same.

Rumor - Orbis will come with: 1x Dualshock, 1x Move Controller, 2x Cameras. Out of the box.
Rumor - Durango will come with: 1x Xbox controller, 1x Kinect device. Out of the box.

From a hardware POV, Orbis actually has a higher chance of having a higher BOM for it's included accessories. But I'm going to say it's close enough to just call it a wash.

For the rest. Considering that the current rumor (if we believe VGLeaks, who everyone that likes Orbis is using as their bible) then PS4 will include the above mentioned items. Hence just like people want to claim that Durango's focus will revolve around Kinect, you could also make the same claim that Orbis' focus will revolve around the cameras and move controller.

In other words, just like Microsoft, Sony would like to tap into that large casual audience that Wii captivated for a few years.

But either way. As stated, from a hardware BOM perspective and thus performance sacrifices that must be made to accommodate those, it ends up being the same.

Hence you end up with the following situation.

1. Orbis' BOM will be significantly higher than Durango's BOM to accommodate the higher performance hardware.
2. BOM for both will be similar due to Durango including more "helper" hardware. Or custom/different CPU and/or GPU configuration.

But people certainly can't claim that Durango had to make sacrifices to accommodate Kinect's higher BOM and thus it has to be lower performing because of Kinect's inclusion.

Now if you want to claim that one SKU for Orbis might not have all of those accessories, that's fine. But then that applies to Durango as well.

Regards,
SB

 

[DJ12]

Or maybe Sony just got a better deal from amd in the first place as they were going with an amd CPU and gpu from the start?

Having already got the deal locked in from Sony they may have felt more comfortable putting the squeeze on Microsoft

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Or maybe Sony just got a better deal from amd in the first place as they were going with an amd CPU and gpu from the start?

Having already got the deal locked in from Sony they may have felt more comfortable putting the squeeze on Microsoft

It's highly unlikely as they have more to gain from pleasing Microsoft and more to lose from displeasing them. As it is rumored that Microsoft will be using an AMD APU in one of the next Surface devices. The potential to move more volume of product lies with being in the Microsoft camp. More volume means better deals. And, at least currently, they are still far too tied to the Microsoft platform ecosystem.

The pot is also potentially sweetened if Microsoft has commissioned extra work on the CPU/GPU or some other system component through AMD. Not saying this is the case, but that it is certainly a possibility.

But I expect that they are both getting similar deals with regards to the hardware sourced from AMD.

Basically if there is nothing else other than what is known from the current leaks from VGLeaks, then Orbis is going to cost significantly more.

Regards,
SB