NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[torbor]

But they could have more success attracting the casuals,and those are many more than the core ones.

Out of 80 million who bought the 360 only 20 million bought Kinect...
It would be moronic to make this gimmick the core of the new console and risk to lose the majority of the former customers unsatisfied with the performance of the new console.
But who knows...

 

[Arwin]

Out of 80 million who bought the 360 only 20 million bought Kinect...
It would be moronic to make this gimmick the core of the new console and risk to lose the majority of the former customers unsatisfied with the performance of the new console.
But who knows...

Considering when Kinect was released, and how relatively limited its application still is, that is a resounding success, and certainly good enough to proceed with including an improved version by default with the next gen console.

 

[szymku]

Changing the topic...
There's no reason for Sony to come out first... They are still going strong with PS3, have plenty of exclusives planned for this year that will bump PS3 sales some more... By going second they will know the price point, specs and overall strategy of X720 and with PS4 ready for manufacture they can launch within 3 months after MS.

As for Microsoft - they still have great sales, but in longer term (1 or 1,5 year) I can't see X360 sales to be so good (except maybe for USA), so they have to release a new platform, reopen the cycle.

 

[Squilliam]

Actually given the size of the chip is Durango likely to ship in volume and quickly? So when could they launch the console realistically? I was thinking earlier this year that they might do another E3 2010 when they launched the Xbox 360 S and shipped in volume around the same time. That way people can take their hype and go straight to the shops and pre-order the console right away and getting a few million in the streets quickly could give them an early mindshare advantage.

 

[upnorthsox]

So they'd launch with no games then? Or games that weren't allowed to be announced until the day the console was launched? How happy would that make them with the devs?

 

[DieH@rd]

They cannot make surprise announcement and ship large volume without us finding about it. Leaks from Chinese manufacture cannot be stopped.

 

[szymku]

They cannot make surprise announcement and ship large volume without us finding about it. Leaks from Chinese manufacture cannot be stopped.

No doubt about it, but it also applies to MS. Therefore Sony can wait for leaks from PRC about x720 production and then start to market their product and manufacture it. Obviously they can't wait forever because of ongoing developement of next gen titles, but definitely they can wait longer than MS.
All in all it also would helpSony to sabotage x720 launch to some extent. Every core gamer can wait 3 months for PS4. 1 year is more difficult as current gen proves.

 

[Squilliam]

Well the devs could announce the games at E3. We already have a 'announcement hole' from Q3 onwards and I was simply considering the possibility of say an earlier launch instead of a Q4 launch. There doesn't seem to be anything in the console which is too 'hard' to produce in volume so long as they can get enough wafer starts.

 

[Averagejoe]

They are said to be 8 core jag's clocked at 1.6ghz for each, Hence I say exactly the same.

There was some rumoring of some customizations on the Durango cores so who knows for 100% sure.

Again though, proelite on GAF is saying DF was wrong about the discrete compute unit. He claimed it's just an extra scalar on some shaders ALU's and already factored in to the 1.84 TF's.

I guess people will believe what they want, but I suspect he's right.

They say it was confirm to the that the compute unit was not par of the GPU,how can it be accounted for.?

What i do have see is Proelite been heavy tilting him self to favor MS when ever something good about the PS4 arise,hell doesn't people on Neogaf claim he work for MS.? So how can he know so well about sony''s hardware.?

And how something is been accounted for when is not on the GPU when the CPU isn't either.?

What you are doing is not different from what you are complaining,you are picking the rumors that best fit you and taken them as fact.

 

[Arwin]

Launching first really increases your chances of becoming a lead-platform though for multi-platform titles.

 

[Bagel seed]

Might not matter that much this time as both will be easy to dev for.

A 6 month delay wouldn't kill anyone. Missing the second Christmas sales window behind your competitor would though.

 

[upnorthsox]

Might not matter that much this time as both will be easy to dev for.

A 6 month delay wouldn't kill anyone. Missing the second Christmas sales window behind your competitor would though.

I disagree, and so does/will MS and Sony.

 

[Bagel seed]

How much can you realistically sell in 6 months? 6 mil? That's unlikely with the usual supply constraints. I think 4-5 mil is what we'd be looking at and that's pretty minor in the long run.

 

[Scott_Arm]

How much can you realistically sell in 6 months? 6 mil? That's unlikely with the usual supply constraints. I think 4-5 mil is what we'd be looking at and that's pretty minor in the long run.

5 mil is somewhere between 5 - 10% of each of the 360 and PS3's total sales. Not really that minor.

 

[DJ12]

I think both companies will sell as much as they can make for the first six months, but ultimately I won't make that much of a difference judging by this gen.

If one console is more appealing to the masses, be it better graphics or better overall experience then that will make the difference.

 

[Bagel seed]

5 mil is somewhere between 5 - 10% of each of the 360 and PS3's total sales. Not really that minor.

Not talking about total lifetime sales, just the deficit between your competitor. Lifetime sales is a nebulous thing to determine since there's a ton of factors that'll affect momentum.

Assuming a sustained 5 mil behind for the entire console lifetime isn't going to make a big difference. Maybe going second could actually provide a useful strategy? Just like in any sort of competitive facet of life.

 

[bkilian]

I find it amusing that the "which is better" thread is having reasonable conversation, and the vgleaks rumor thread is full of "which is better" fanboyism.

 

[upnorthsox]

I sure hope you're right fox. I think the best and most cost effective solution for Sony is 3D stacking. It's possible 4 gb GDDR5 was only in the dev kits to make way of stacked ddr3/4 with high bandwidth and low latency. I believe it's also much faster to manufacture so Sony doesn't have to start production many months before like MS would have to. If they can provide full HSA and good enough hardware, then we're golden.

Next monday we should get another "leak" from vg leaks. I believe they also claimed that Sony would announce something in a few weeks. If true, then stacking seems less probable if Sony intents to release first. At the same time, a Sony rep last year claimed that the company never releases first so I honestly don't know what their strategy is.
Also this talk about a second xbox, I wonder if it's something insignificant like set top box, or xbox surface that no one will care about, or if it's a supped up console releasing later which would be awesome. Only 2 months left until we know everything so patience...

IMO we are done for a while now. To round up so far: MS had their "unofficial" teaser, Sony responded with their 'unofficial" leak, then MS rebutted with their "unofficial" additional info leak. I think Sony is satisfied and has nothing else to add at this time, and unless MS has something else to clarify, they are done for now too.

Next up, game teasers!!! This will be fun and mostly 3rd party. That'll lead us into....

GDC, where we'll get more in depth game info and background spec info as it relates to the devs/games.

Lots of good stuff coming up.

 

[patsu]

I find it amusing that the "which is better" thread is having reasonable conversation, and the vgleaks rumor thread is full of "which is better" fanboyism.

Consoles are interesting because technologists have to make very hard choices given the price, expected lifetime, targeted output, and heat considerations. There is usually a compromise somewhere coupled with an exploit in technology to get ahead of the game. It challenges the basic principles and assumptions. e.g., Is latency or bandwidth more important ? Can cache be made explicit ? NUMA vs uniform memory access ? ...

It's rather interesting to see how people structure and place their bets. And what they throw away.

Then, some developers come out on top by embracing the strengths of the consoles. That's probably the most gratifying part of the story.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I find it amusing that the "which is better" thread is having reasonable conversation, and the vgleaks rumor thread is full of "which is better" fanboyism.

What?! I'll get on it right away ...

I have an insider that says the PS4 is totally the worst, because the GPU is actually only 10% efficient. Also, it only has 1 GB of RAM. The other chips are just chunks of plastic that look like RAM to make it seem like it's more powerful than it is. He said the Xbox is mega awesome, because it's just naturally going to be the best thing ever, no matter what. So, the PS4 is gonna suck, and that means anyone that likes it is a terrible person, by association.