NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[bkilian]

Thanks for responding. To the best of my knowledge there's no mic in a MacMini, I used the example of a MacMini (could have used iMac also) as examples of consumer electronics that run silent, or near silent, but don't have expensive cooling solutions. They are simply well engineered. When you lose the noise, the simplify the problem.

Aah, that's where you're wrong. The fan design on the new macs is not cheap at all. I'd say Apple spent a ton of money getting there, and each fan is significantly more expensive than a normal PC fan. Also, they don't reduce the total audio energy being released, they actually increase it a little. What they do is spread that energy over a wide spectrum of frequencies, such that no single frequency has high DB. Once it did become audible, it would be impossible to remove. The Mac Mini uses an 85 watt power supply. Increase the wattage, and you have to increase the efficiency of the cooling solution, which will increase the noise.

Why is this the case and what type of directional mics are we talking about, Unidirectional? How about an omnidirectional with a wide-cardioid? Because that'd look to capture around 100 degrees ahead quite nicely, perhaps a bit wider.

Yep, that's kinda what we use in the Kinect.

I think you're referring the way the mics operate when the phone at held to the side of your face, sorry for not being clear, but I was talking about how the mics that operate in hands-free. Or any mic in a laptop (where it's often under the keyboard) and will get vibrations from the HDD and possibly the optical drive, as well as needing to negate sound from the speakers as well.

I don't doubt it's a complex problem.

Laptop mics and your phone mics operate in single talk mode. When they detect you're talking, they mute the speakers. That's why you get the weird artifacts and cutoffs for phone conversations, and why, sometimes, with a loud enough speaker, the audio from the other side is energetic enough that it triggers the voice detection on your side and your speakers cut out. If you've spent any amount of time on hold, you'll have experienced this. They ignore all input to the mics unless they've detected a human speaker, so echo cancellation is trivial.
For the rare occasions they actually provide a double talk mode, like those audio conference systems, it's always mono, and AEC is reasonably simple.
Kinect operates in Stereo -> 6 channel double talk mode all the time. The algorithm running on the Kinect itself, which leaves out heavyweight things like the static tone remover and runs slightly degraded due to being integer, takes 13 ms to process a 16ms audio frame. If it were attached to the console directly, with the attendent noise and vibration, you'd have two things. The AEC would not be able to adapt, and audio quality would be hugely degraded. When the essentially silent fan in the kinect goes from low RPM to higher RPM (which it does in hot weather), we lose about 6-10db of noise reduction and drop about 15% in speech recognition accuracy, and that fan is quieter than the Mac mini.

You can call it what you want other people after me told you the same,sony and Toshiba had been partners on the PS for quite some time.

Toshiba was a rival company to sony,it makes no sense to them to share the design with a company which will use Cell for its TV's you know sony sell TV's as well right.?

The Cell was for a long time known as the STI Cell, where STI stands for "Sony, Toshiba, IBM". As far as I know Toshiba is mainly responsible for parts of the SPE units, which may be a spiritual successor to the vector units in the PS2's "Emotion Engine", also designed by Toshiba and Sony. In the last 5 years, Sony apparently sold their stake in Cell to Toshiba, and then recently it seems, Toshiba sold it back.

 

[MrFox]

The Cell was for a long time known as the STI Cell, where STI stands for "Sony, Toshiba, IBM". As far as I know Toshiba is mainly responsible for parts of the SPE units, which may be a spiritual successor to the vector units in the PS2's "Emotion Engine", also designed by Toshiba and Sony. In the last 5 years, Sony apparently sold their stake in Cell to Toshiba, and then recently it seems, Toshiba sold it back.

It seems to be just production lines changing hands, not the stakes in the Cell design. Surely Sony will keep making Cell elsewhere as long as they make PS3s and perhaps BC modules.
Isn't this the fab that has finally been repurposed to make BSI CMOS sensors?

 

[patsu]

Yes, just the fab. Sony bought it back to expand their Exmor capacity.

In the original development, Toshiba wanted to get rid of the PPU. Sony kept the PPU because IBM obviously wanted PowerPC ISA inside. Toshiba made SpurEngine later, which is basically just 4 SPUs running slightly faster and also smaller. They also made the Super Companion Chip that went into the Cell blades. The SCC gives QoS attributes to Cell I/O in the blades.

Sony also has a patent on a modified Cell, which has 1 PPU and 4 SPUs sitting on a memory controller so you can use other RAM.

EDIT: I was hoping Sony use this modified Cell in PS4 to handle security, audio, video and decompression instead of specialized h/w units. No luck I think.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

Yes, just the fab. Sony bought it back to expand their Exmor capacity.

In the original development, Toshiba wanted to get rid of the PPU. Sony kept the PPU because IBM obviously wanted PowerPC ISA inside. Toshiba made SpurEngine later, which is basically just 4 SPUs running slightly faster and also smaller. They also made the Super Companion Chip that went into the Cell blades. The SCC gives QoS attributes to Cell I/O in the blades.

Sony also has a patent on a modified Cell, which has 1 PPU and 4 SPUs sitting on a memory controller so you can use other RAM.

EDIT: I was hoping Sony use this modified Cell in PS4 to handle security, audio, video and decompression instead of specialized h/w units. No luck I think.

I thought it ran at half the clock of the Cell and half the XDR memory.

 

[patsu]

You're correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpursEngine

Toshiba reduced SPE size by 27% and run them @ 1.5GHz.

Hm... I thought I read somewhere that they optimized the SPU performance/watt a little. Perhaps they just don't need a 3.2GHz for their TVs.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

You're correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpursEngine

Toshiba reduced SPE size by 27% and run them @ 1.5GHz.

Hm... I thought I read somewhere that they optimized the SPU performance/watt a little. Perhaps they just don't need a 3.2GHz for their TVs.

I thought Toshiba dropped the SpursEngine for a bunch of ARMs on a 512bit bus. Maybe it was another company or I've blended different sources seen over the past couple years.

 

[patsu]

They did chose another chip in their latest TVs.

 

[Xenio]

no more leaks for kutaku and vgleaks...
and it's not an happy end for superdae

Dan ‏@superDaE
@blockeight FBI agent that flew in from the US. This raid was a result from the Aussie police kissing America's ass

Dan
‏@superDaE
@BenPeace91 Because its a laughing matter to have an FBI agent and 7-8 POLICE in your house.

On February 19th between 7:10-12:30 +8GMT, SuperDaE was busy with a house full of unwanted guests. During this 5 hour Australian household raid, DaE was forced to follow them around his house as he watched them scavenge everything technology based in his possession.

Storming into his house was 8 Police Officers, followed by one single FBI Agent. Due to suspected server breaches, multiple counts of unauthorized server access and misuse of a computer. The companies who filed these complaints were Microsoft, Epic Games, Blizzard, Valve and Sony. DaE went on to say "Yo, everyone at this point just wants a piece of me".

The raid was conducted by local law enforcement with assistance from the FBI into the home of an Australian citizen. This clearly brings up recent memories of the iconic megaupload related raid into the home New Zealand resident Kim Dotcom by the FBI.

Everything from old unused computers, to a cellphone with a specific number was taken from his house. In a world where technology is everything, they left him stranded with nothing. They even froze his bank accounts. Multiple hours after the raid happened, DaE headed into a nearby town where he accessed a computer at an Apple Store. During his time on this computer he went onto an extremely popular site, Twitter. He sent out a few tweets about the raid, which can be found below.

If convicted SuperDaE is looking at 20+ years with a possible consecutive life sentence. It is extremely unbelievable that "Misuse of a computer" can land you more jail time than a "Manslaughter" charge.

We thank you DaE for sitting down with us to get this story right and wish you the best of luck in your future.

Here is a more fitted image of the warrant that was executed at SuperDaE's residence yesterday morning:

http://www.thetechgame.com/News/article/sid=4125.html

Sony and Microsoft reacted

seems like that he have epic, blizzard and valve softwares too, now I can understand what he says about the graphic jump from 360 games to next gen games

 

[Grall]

People like this "superdae" guy always go shedding their crocodile tears in public to try and whip up sympathy whenever they get what's due to them. That shitstain Kim Dotcom is just the same. If Epic, Blizzard and Valve are also pissed at him it could be that in addition to trying to illegally sell a stolen microsoft development system this guy has also either tried to hack into these companies' private networks or succeeded in doing so.

He's a thief and a scumbag. Fuck him.

 

[Cyan]

today I was thinking at multiple SKU, multiple chipset rumored for durango
but still believing to rumors that talks about one cpu and one gpu..

the solution can be:
2 free slot for future gpu module (a chipset with som memory) to SLI or replacing the onboard Gpu
it will be upgradable as some rumored,
it will last 15 years or more (xbox infinity?)
it will be cheap to implement (a lot more cheap than multiple sku projects) from start
it will not disappoint early adopters, you can buy it day one and upgrade every 5 years

is that a walkable road? (even if I think that i will not happens in this next gen)

As others pointed out in different posts, Xbox Infinity sounds fine and would make sense following 360...however, where do you go from infinity?

no more leaks for kutaku and vgleaks...
and it's not an happy end for superdae

Dan ‏@superDaE
@blockeight FBI agent that flew in from the US. This raid was a result from the Aussie police kissing America's ass

Dan
‏@superDaE
@BenPeace91 Because its a laughing matter to have an FBI agent and 7-8 POLICE in your house.



http://www.thetechgame.com/News/article/sid=4125.html

Sony and Microsoft reacted

seems like that he have epic, blizzard and valve softwares too, now I can understand what he says about the graphic jump from 360 games to next gen games

8 policemen? :smile: MS have been working hard to make the police department rules reflect the likeness of the Windows 8 OS, like the next xbox UI, most probably.

There is still some humanity left in this world though, as the police kindly allowed him to tweet us about the situation.

It sounds fake to me.

 

[Blazkowicz]

EDIT: I was hoping Sony use this modified Cell in PS4 to handle security, audio, video and decompression instead of specialized h/w units. No luck I think.

Maybe it's a solution in search of a problem.
Flexibility sounds nice but you're just wasting watts and dollars compared to doing the same on DSPs.

 

[Xenio]

As others pointed out in different posts, Xbox Infinity sounds fine and would make sense following 360...however, where do you go from infinity?


8 policemen? :smile: MS have been working hard to make the police department rules reflect the likeness of the Windows 8 OS, like the next xbox UI, most probably.

There is still some humanity left in this world though, as the police kindly allowed him to tweet us about the situation.

It sounds fake to me.

he tweeted from an Apple store. Follow the link and look the documents

 

[Betanumerical]

he tweeted from an Apple store. Follow the link and look the documents

It was my understanding that people generally get arrested after a raid no? I didnt realise they were so liberal in perth.

 

[Xenio]

It was my understanding that people generally get arrested after a raid no? I didnt realise they were so liberal in perth.

Nope. The same thing happened to me 8 years ago, they took all my PC.. and they take time to examine evidences.
Luckly I was never arrested

 

[Betanumerical]

Nope. The same thing happened to me 8 years ago, they took all my PC.. and they take time to examine evidences.
Luckly I was never arrested

The evidence is pretty ample in this case, and rather obvious, a lot of its public even. Also the arrest warrant doesn't mention Valve, Blizzard or Epic.

Just microsoft and ebay / paypal.

 

[tunafish]

There is still some humanity left in this world though, as the police kindly allowed him to tweet us about the situation.

He wasn't arrested, he was just served a search warrant for evidence. The police didn't detain him in any way, he was entirely free to head to the closest webcafe and tweet from there. There was nothing unusual about this. They probably didn't have enough evidence to arrest him, but they had enough for a search, so they went in and took everything even remotely related to computers. Now they will go over the evidence, find the incriminating stuff, and use that to arrest him. Could take weeks.

It sounds fake to me.

There is a photo of a search warrant in there. Faking that is *heavily* criminal, and the prosecutors would absolutely chase you for it, and the courts would drop everything in the book, the book, and the table on you for it. It's literally bad enough that they would try to extradite you from halfway across the world for it. If that's fake, then someone will spend years in prison for the fun they had faking it.

 

[Nisaaru]

The evidence is pretty ample in this case, and rather obvious, a lot of its public even. Also the arrest warrant doesn't mention Valve, Blizzard or Epic.

Just microsoft and ebay / paypal.

And what is the evidence? That he seems to have old 720 specs and a dev system doesn't prove that he either broke any NDA with MS nor got them illegally in Australia. Don't know the story about Valve, Blizzard and co. though.

 

[Xenio]

He wasn't arrested, he was just served a search warrant for evidence. The police didn't detain him in any way, he was entirely free to head to the closest webcafe and tweet from there. There was nothing unusual about this. They probably didn't have enough evidence to arrest him, but they had enough for a search, so they went in and took everything even remotely related to computers. Now they will go over the evidence, find the incriminating stuff, and use that to arrest him. Could take weeks.

he risks 20+ years with a possible consecutive life sentence for selling two devkits NOT stolen and to have given us OLD specs
is that bad the justice in Australia or it's the USA pressure on them? anyway hardly anyone will give us accurate rumors, manuals, official pdf..

he was on the point to leak the real name of the xbox next, last words he wrote to me is that I should buy durango and don't trust too much the comparison on internet forums and will be no graphic disappoint. now we have to wait official sources, that's all folks.

 

[Betanumerical]

he risks 20+ years with a possible consecutive life sentence for selling two devkits NOT stolen and to have given us OLD specs
is that bad the justice in Australia or it's the USA pressure on them? anyway hardly anyone will give us accurate rumors, manuals, official pdf..

he was on the point to leak the real name of the xbox next, last words he wrote to me is that I should buy durango and don't trust too much the comparison on internet forums and will be no graphic disappoint. now we have to wait official sources, that's all folks.

One of them would probably at least be receiving stolen goods. Its my understanding that devkits do not belong to a company, and are not theres to give away.

 

[patsu]

Maybe it's a solution in search of a problem.
Flexibility sounds nice but you're just wasting watts and dollars compared to doing the same on DSPs.

Yes, they definitely need to keep the price low.

As for solution searching for a problem, the problems are all well defined and match the strength of the SPUs in this case: audio, security, video, and decompression at low power consumption. Yet have the spare power for compute tasks and helping b/c emulator (if present). Like what they do in PS3, its flexible DMA could also help to swizzle and preprocess GPU data (DMEs do the same thing, but less flexible -- only decompression).

Making Sony's modified Cell is likely too expensive.