Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
102 GB/s...continuously or in bursts?ROP's points to esram, 102 GB/s
not to ddr
According to the leaked documents, Durango can provide 170 GB/s of combinated bandwidth, but 102 for its ROP's
102 GB/s...continuously or in bursts?ROP's points to esram, 102 GB/s
not to ddr
According to the leaked documents, Durango can provide 170 GB/s of combinated bandwidth, but 102 for its ROP's
There is no valid documentation they could have seen that would have said "based on Jaguar".
So too xbox fans mention twice the flops and the rest of you grasp it like it's gospel, it reeks of desperation.
I doubt their will be any difference in CPUs other than name. And even if it was twice as powerful it would be some 40 gflops down because of the OS.
I know people want to believe Sony are reserving cores and cu's for the OS but that is wishful thinking on their part hoping orbis is coming out weaker than it looks.
It's more likely that Epic is targeting 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 on a 7970 or 680 class GPU. 1920x1080 being the most popular desktop resolution.
So I'd imagine that at 720p or sub 720p, Orbis should be able to do something similar. And since I'd say most developers targeting advanced rendering techniques are likely targeting 720p on next gen consoles, then that fits right in.
Regards,
SB
In that case, one would not comment on being a "super computer", right? That would show interest, within itself. That would require more than a low level, isolated look. You couldn't verify something as low level as electrical signalling of an IO and say "super computer", right? Anyone at a high enough level to say "super computer" should know what their equipment is for and to quantify that, right?If your job is verifying the electrical signalling of the IO, what difference does it make what the signals are for? Lots of things go into making a complex system, and most are way below the level where the games are relevant.
It's more likely that Epic is targeting 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 on a 7970 or 680 class GPU. 1920x1080 being the most popular desktop resolution.
So I'd imagine that at 720p or sub 720p, Orbis should be able to do something similar. And since I'd say most developers targeting advanced rendering techniques are likely targeting 720p on next gen consoles, then that fits right in.
Regards,
SB
In that case, one would not comment on being a "super computer", right? That would show interest, within itself. That would require more than a low level, isolated look. You couldn't verify something as low level as electrical signalling of an IO and say "super computer", right? Anyone at a high enough level to say "super computer" should know what their equipment is for and to quantify that, right?
As it stands with what I know, that's pretty much it. It seems there maybe something akin to VMX128 with Durango's version. Still not quite sure. It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.
In that case, one would not comment on being a "super computer", right? That would show interest, within itself. That would require more than a low level, isolated look. You couldn't verify something as low level as electrical signalling of an IO and say "super computer", right? Anyone at a high enough level to say "super computer" should know what their equipment is for and to quantify that, right?
Wow, so Durango will be doing 480p then? That's alot worse than I thought.
So I take it you are going to ban yourself when orbis has nothing reserved for the OS except the memory we already know about?
I have said many things in this thread that the likes of you have laughed at, yet slowly these things started to appear closer to the truth than the fantasies being pedalled.
I may not have your technical knowledge but I do not make things up and repeat them once a day because I want it to be true.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/epic-on-the-industrys-giant-leap-to-next-gen/
this doesn't match what we know about durango and orbis, not with those specs, so what's missing here?
Surely Epic know very well what we don't
but I am quite certain when I say that it really doesn't matter a whole ton what current top of the line PC innards are like vis a vis the rumored orbis\durango specs. Compare the PS3 and 360 to the best PC's of their time and you will see a largely similar theoretical performance disparity.
The difference is, as has been pointed out at length in this and many other threads, is that consoles will always hit a far greater level of efficiency than any PC title can dream of. Every component in a console is placed there with due consideration and net performance of the whole unit is the target for the engineers (within a budget).
Didn't MS, back in the day, have some kind of requirement when they certified a game for the 360 to be 720p? I mean obviously alot of games came out that weren't, but were those special exceptions or was there no resolution requirement for the platform?
No. When the 360 launched it was arguably 90% as powerful as the fastest PC GPU of the day while being more advanced (feature wise). This generation, Orbis will be level (or even behind) feature wise and roughly 35% as powerful. That's not the same situation at all.
No one has ever ignored or tried to wash over this fact. But the reality is that the best case performance increase you could gain overall in the current generation (around 2x) would not be close to enough this coming generation to gain performance parity. And of course API's have got thinner and more efficient on the PC since the last generation so that 2x advantage is likely a fair bit lower now.
If Durango was packing an 8 core / 4 module Steamroller (which I don't expect it will be) then it would also likely be running at at least twice the clock speed of the Jaguars in Orbis meaning that in the worse case scenario it would match it in SIMD throughput and in best case it would double it. With reality being somewhere inbetween.
Plus both single and multithreaded scalar performance would be well over double.
What? The fastest being like the GTX 690 or the AMD equivalent? Those monster cards whose power consumption and heat generation is through the roof and costs bucket loads of money?
Was there anything even like that kind of tier back then? The super enthusiast models of graphics card?
I don't know about you, but I don't consider that to be a fair comparison. How about a more reasonable target- how does the Orbis or Durango GPU compare to a GTX 680 on paper or the flagship single card from AMD (I don't really keep up with their lines, I'm an Nvidia guy).
Unless this is what you were comparing it too the whole time.
I know that Orbis will certainly not be 1:1 with either of those cards, but is its GPU really only barely a third as powerful as a GTX 680?
To be thorough, at the time of the 360's launch what was the best single graphics card available. How much did it cost, what was the power consumption\heat generation, and its specs.
From what I have read, the Orbis GPU does not appear to be a third as powerful as this card, HD 7950, which is second to the top of the line (HD 7970). It seems to be alot more competitive than that?
If you read between the lines bkilian is saying Durango doesn't support patches which are required for tessellation. So Durango doesn't support tessellation.That's not to say, Brad, that there aren't other reasons for including those elements, irrespective of their role in addressing issues. ESRAM, for instance, has benefits that exceed simply adding bandwidth to the design, as very clearly called out in the leaked docs. The design is not a series of patches.
Honesty on the internet. I thought it was a myth.People comment on things they don't really know much about all the time.
Look at me...
You still seemed to be getting confused. Hence, why I keep stressing utilization. In that case that you proposed, Orbis still isn't likely to be getting full utilization of GPU resources, while Durango will be much closer to full utilization of its resources. Hell, in the case where Orbis somehow managed 100% GPU utilization it's likely that Durango's GPU would also be at 100% utilization. The difference? Orbis would be faster obviously, but utilization (efficient use of GPU resources) would be exactly the same.
And again, let me stress something that you miss every single time when replying to me. Higher utilization (efficient use) of hardware resources does not necessarily mean higher performance. Hence, lower efficiency on Orbis will still likely result in higher performance in real world rendering.
So, why keep banging on about increased utilization of available hardware resources? Because it means the performance differential is likely going to be smaller than the pure hardware specs would imply.
And that's ONLY going by the rumored leaks, which may not even contain the correct details. And certainly doesn't contain all the relevant details in order to make a truly informed decision about where absolute or relative performance for each console will be.
Additionally before you get all uptight that I'm claiming that your Orbis is inefficient... Please note that I fully expect Orbis to make more efficient use of its hardware than is currently the case on PC. And I've never gone around claiming that the GPUs in PCs are inefficient.
Just because speculating on what was added and why to otherwise standard hardware would suggest that the entire focus of the hardware choices in Durango was to maximize efficient use of available hardware while Orbis isn't quite as aggressive by going with a more "traditional" layout and data flow, doesn't mean that Orbis is some incredibly inefficient design. It's just that with what is released thus far, Durango's design appears to be putting much more effort into increasing the efficient utilization of available hardware resources above and beyond what you get with a relatively more standard configuration.
Will it bear out that way in the final console designs? Maybe, maybe not. This is speculation after all, based on incredibly incomplete information.
Regards,
SB