NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[pjbliverpool]

I wonder if replacing the FPMUL unit with an FMA unit would help, not necessarily for increasing flop count, but efficiency. I would expect that in most work loads that's the type of operation, multiply accumulate, that will be done. It would seem that an FMA unit could help with register pressure and latency when dealing when scheduling the separate multiply/add instructions currently. In theory it could also help with instruction decode since it eliminates an instruction from the stream.

Surely that would increase the flops by only 50% though so both the ADD and the MUL units would have to be upgraded to FMADD. But as itsmydamnation says above, that may require additional pipeline changes to reap the full benefits. Or maybe durango is just using 4 steamroller modules

 

[Averagejoe]

Crytek founder Cevat Yerli has stated that it is impossible for PS4 and Xbox 720 to match the clout of gaming PCs in a new interview. He also confirmed that he is currently under NDA at both Sony and Microsoft on both of their incoming next-gen consoles.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/18/crytek-its-impossible-for-next-gen-consoles-to-match-pcs/

Crytek point of view on the PC vs Durango and Orbis.

Maybe we are fighting over nothing,and in the end it will be what you see is what you get on a hardware level perspective.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/18/crytek-its-impossible-for-next-gen-consoles-to-match-pcs/

Crytek point of view on the PC vs Durango and Orbis.

Maybe we are fighting over nothing,and in the end it will be what you see is what you get on a hardware level perspective.

They also said Crysis 2 PS3 had the best graphics seen in PS3, ouch!.

 

[Averagejoe]

They also said Crysis 2 PS3 had the best graphics seen in PS3, ouch!.

Well it was their game to hype,what would you think they would say Killzone 3 looks better.?

 

[fehu]

Surely that would increase the flops by only 50% though so both the ADD and the MUL units would have to be upgraded to FMADD. But as itsmydamnation says above, that may require additional pipeline changes to reap the full benefits. Or maybe durango is just using 4 steamroller modules

Maybe the durango cpu has some dedicated cu too

 

[upnorthsox]

Surely that would increase the flops by only 50% though so both the ADD and the MUL units would have to be upgraded to FMADD. But as itsmydamnation says above, that may require additional pipeline changes to reap the full benefits. Or maybe durango is just using 4 steamroller modules

There's a good point in that razz, at what point have you customized the Durango CPU into an 8 core underclocked Steamroller?

 

[Polyteres]

Hi, In vgleaks leaks I remember that it was said that the cores of the new xbox did not share any units. In architecture jaguar, each pair of cores share an FPU unit, so and if this is the supposed performance gain that has the new xbox?.

Perhaps not gain 200GFlops but enough for floating point performance that is superior.

Bye.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

- x64 Architecture
- 8 CPU cores running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz)
- each CPU thread has its own 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache
- each module of four CPU cores has a 2 MB L2 cache resulting in a total of 4 MB of L2 cache
- each core has one fully independent hardware thread with no shared execution resources
- each hardware thread can issue two instructions per clock

That's what VGLeaks wrote about Durango CPU. These description rules out a Bulldozer, Piledriver or Steamroller in which a module consists of two integer cores that share a 256Bit FPU. The Durango CPU sounds like a pretty ordinary Jaguar CPU. The 100% increase in FLOPS that bgassassin spoke about is probably just a GCN CU dedicated to computing tasks, as someone mentioned above.

 

[Strange]

Hi, In vgleaks leaks I remember that it was said that the cores of the new xbox did not share any units. In architecture jaguar, each pair of cores share an FPU unit, so and if this is the supposed performance gain that has the new xbox?.

Perhaps not gain 200GFlops but enough for floating point performance that is superior.

Bye.

AMD presentation on Jaguar doesn't show that cores share FPU units though?

From AMD presentation about Jaguar Cores

"JAGUAR" CORE
Floating Point Unit
Like “Bobcat”:
- 2 wide FP decode
- OOO scheduler
- 2 execution pipes

“Jaguar” Enhancements:
128b native hardware
– 4 SP muls + 4 SP adds
– 1 DP mul + 2 DP adds
ISA: many new COPs
– 256b AVX supported by double pumping 128b hardware
New Zero Optimizations
Second FPRF stage for frequency

>4 SP muls + 4 SP adds
This should be where 8 FLOPS/cycle comes from.

How does one double this to 16 I have no idea.

 

[torbor]

Well it was their game to hype,what would you think they would say Killzone 3 looks better.?

Not long ago they also said that the real world performence of Orbis and Durango is equal to high end pcs of 2012
....

 

[scently]

- x64 Architecture
- 8 CPU cores running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz)
- each CPU thread has its own 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache
- each module of four CPU cores has a 2 MB L2 cache resulting in a total of 4 MB of L2 cache
- each core has one fully independent hardware thread with no shared execution resources
- each hardware thread can issue two instructions per clock

That's what VGLeaks wrote about Durango CPU. These description rules out a Bulldozer, Piledriver or Steamroller in which a module consists of two integer cores that share a 256Bit FPU. The Durango CPU sounds like a pretty ordinary Jaguar CPU. The 100% increase in FLOPS that bgassassin spoke about is probably just a GCN CU dedicated to computing tasks, as someone mentioned above.

Or maybe its a modified jaguar, just like the ppc in xbox360 was a modified version of the one used in Cell. I really don't see why this is hard to believe.

 

[upnorthsox]

Or maybe its a modified jaguar, just like the ppc in xbox360 was a modified version of the one used in Cell. I really don't see why this is hard to believe.

Maybe because Jaguar is already a modified Bobcat so to expect another major revision before it has even seen first production silicon is asking a little too much? :shrug

But hey, believe what you want. It's all speculation anyhow, at least until Wednesday.

 

[scently]

Maybe because Jaguar is already a modified Bobcat so to expect another major revision before it has even seen first production silicon is asking a little too much? :shrug

But hey, believe what you want. It's all speculation anyhow, at least until Wednesday.

Well, given that its not called jaguar in any of the rumor......but hey, believe what you want.

 

[upnorthsox]

Well, given that its not called jaguar in any of the rumor......but hey, believe what you want.

And you said:

Or maybe its a modified jaguar,......

Soi I'm not supposed to believe you then? Ok.

 

[scently]

And you said:



Soi I'm not supposed to believe you then? Ok.

Like you said, believe what you want.

 

[arijoytunir]

Display ScanOutDevice Engine

Another of the misterious components in Orbis specs is the DCE, or Display ScanOutDevice Engine.



To put into perspective, this component is the equivalent to the Display Planes in Durango for Orbis system. It’s a custom display and scanout block inside the GPU.

The main difference between Durango and Orbis relies in the number of “planes”. Orbis only contains two independent pipelines, one for games and one for OS overlays (Durango has three). Functions are similar, it allows to scale independently in resolution and blend, besides being framerate independant as well.

Each pipeline supports the following features:

- Surface resolutions from 320×200 to 1920×1080

- Hight quality up and down scalers

- Surface format may be 32 or 64 bits per pixel

- Deep color support (8, 10 or 12 bits per pixel)

- Two cursor overlays (up to 64×64 each, 3-D support).

 

[liolio]

Not long ago they also said that the real world performence of Orbis and Durango is equal to high end pcs of 2012
....

Wasn't that Epic?
Anyway, the overall volume in the industry seems a bit down in the last couple of years, the big editors, studios, middleware providers need new hardware.
I don't expect them to say anything bad, and vague comments are vague comments "equal" doesn't mean much.

It also put the reaction to the WiiU in perspective, every body wanted a new machine and a successful one, they were a lot of disappointment that show in what transpire in the media.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

A couple of weeks ago Yerli said that Crysis 3 on maxed out settings will be on par with early next gen games.

Display ScanOutDevice Engine

So that basically means that PlayStation games will have the same resolution for interface and graphics while Durango is able to render interface and graphics with a different resolution?

 

[Love_In_Rio]

A couple of weeks ago Yerli said that Crysis 3 on maxed out settings will be on par with early next gen games.



So that basically means that PlayStation games will have the same resolution for interface and graphics while Durango is able to render interface and graphics with a different resolution?

As i understand it in Orbis the system messages like trophies pop-ups will have its own display plane at native 1080p while the game could be running at 720p and upscaled to 1080p. What is missing here is the possibility of render the game UI or forefront to a different native resolution than the background.

 

[loekf]

Display ScanOutDevice Engine

Is it too simple too say that the main reason for 2 instead of 3 (Durango) display engines ("paths") is that Microsoft foresees use-cases where external video (= TV, Bluray) is mixed with games (internally generated 3D graphics) and OSD ? In other words, a STB+... while Sony sticks to a pure gaming device ?