Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[ultragpu]

it's not. it really isn't.
If you believe in all of our tech coming together, it's more than sufficient.
You got your ray tracing which produces settings above ultra level
you got the reconstruction and checkerboarding
you got 7TF of a superior architecture
You have RT acceleration, 3x the memory and 4x the bandwidth
combined with SSD.

you have a really beefy system here.

RDR2 is 4K native on 6TF (much less efficient architecture) with 1/2 the memory and a 4x weaker cpu, no rapid packed math.

Just think about what 1/2 resolution reconstruction, Rapid packed Math, 2x the memory, 2.5x the bandwidth, 4x the CPU, with ray tracing could do.
There is a lot of power in this next machine when fully optimized.

I'm sure it'll still be vastly superior than current mid gen consoles overall but the point being it might not be so competitive to the other console which could lead to crappy multiplat ports, low next gen baseline etc. Hardware raytracing could do more harm than good I fear.

 

[fehu]

but you believe consoles releasing over one year from now will be using the old 7nm node?

Yes

 

[Pinstripe]

You lost me on your first prediction.
TSMC just announced they're now on high volume production of N7+, but you believe consoles releasing over one year from now will be using the old 7nm node?
And a GPU compute throughput that is only 16% higher than the one achieved by a mid-gen console released 3 years before?

Perhaps the re-tooling to 7nm+ isn't as simple? They'd probably have to start mass producing the SoCs early next year, and AMD hasn't had a 7nm+ design ready for tape-out yet?

These aren't Nintendo consoles.

What if Sony wants to go down that path this time?

 

[iroboto]

I'm sure it'll still be vastly superior than current mid gen consoles overall but the point being it might not be so competitive to the other console which could lead to crappy multiplat ports, low next gen baseline etc. Hardware raytracing could do more harm than good I fear.

i'm fairly confident they'll be the same. I'd be shocked if we saw a dramatic difference in performance, because that would lead to a dramatic difference in price.

just curious, but if RT an enabler of producing better visual quality. What is the concern?

 

[KeanuReeves]

Not random, I'm off on my hols tomorrow and Sony needed to update me before I left.



If true, this is Xbox...I put money on it.

Fehu did make a point about it having a very low power mode which is the exact thing Sony has said publicly about the "PS5" being a very green console compared to PS4.

 

[KeanuReeves]

One would think Scarlett could easily curb stomp PS5's TF count left and right, unless this hybrid RDNA TF is even more efficient than RDNA1? So we could be effectively looking at 13-14 TF of GCN?? This is just crazy town now.

We know that RDNA had 2xIPC over GCN no? I was under the assumption that while the FLOP count wouldn't see that big of an increase, the effective performance would be very significant. This was around the time everyone said that RDNA was just GCN again so consensus may have moved since.

 

[McHuj]

because we don't understand how their RT system works. Perhaps to make RT intersection go faster, you need more bandwidth to traverse the acceleration structure in parallel or faster. RT speeds are bound by IIRC: intersection calculation time; updating the acceleration structure as a result of changes in the scene.

That would be my hope. I think I would prefer a ~7TF GPU plus parallel RT capability over a ~10 TF GPU. I think RT has the potential to noticeably change visuals.

Given then power consumption numbers of the Navi boards, this spec isn't that unrealistic.

 

[Globalisateur]

it's not. it really isn't.
If you believe in all of our tech coming together, it's more than sufficient.
You got your ray tracing which produces settings above ultra level
you got the reconstruction and checkerboarding
you got 7TF of a superior architecture
You have RT acceleration, 3x the memory and 4x the bandwidth
combined with SSD.

you have a really beefy system here.

RDR2 is 4K native on 6TF (much less efficient architecture) with 1/2 the memory and a 4x weaker cpu, no rapid packed math.

Just think about what 1/2 resolution reconstruction, Rapid packed Math, 2x the memory, 2.5x the bandwidth, 4x the CPU, with ray tracing could do.
There is a lot of power in this next machine when fully optimized.

RDR2 is 4K native with 6 tf because it's a game (assets, polygon budget, lighting etc.) designed to run on a 1.3 tfops machine.

 

[goonergaz]

hmm?
controller: current gen's evolutionary iteration, rechargeable with off the shelf cables

I wouldn't see how this would be an evolution of xbox's controllers since they haven't gone with rechargables.

All previous PS rechargeable controllers recharged with off the shelf cables...just seems an odd thing to mention "it also does what their last 2 generation controllers did". I took it that 'whilst the controller is an evolution of the current one it also has rechargeable batteries'.

Fehu did make a point about it having a very low power mode which is the exact thing Sony has said publicly about the "PS5" being a very green console compared to PS4.

Yeah, it's not like MS will have a low power mode.

I dunno, probably wrong as always...just seems to easy to say it's PS5 to me.

 

[iroboto]

All previous PS rechargeable controllers recharged with off the shelf cables...just seems an odd thing to mention "it also does what their last 2 generation controllers did".

lol; i guess if there was a way to recharge a controller without a cable would have people much more excited. Wireless tech is available. The console would need to provide wireless charging somehow.

 

[goonergaz]

lol; i guess if there was a way to recharge a controller without a cable would have people much more excited. Wireless tech is available. The console would need to provide wireless charging somehow.

Wireless docking station would be awesome, I don't mind the PS4 one I have but the Xbox one (by same company) is utter trash.

 

[DavidGraham]

I can't imagine the new Xbox to be even lower than 7 TF. One would think Scarlett could easily curb stomp PS5's TF count left and right, unless this hybrid RDNA TF is even more efficient than RDNA1?

RDNA flops are different than GCN flops, they are akin to NVIDIA flops now, so a 7TF RDNA2 or RDNA 1 GPU will be significantly faster than a 6TF GCN GPU.

Why would you need 800 GB/sec for a 7TF GPU?

Because it's a shared system for both the CPU and the GPU? An 8 core Ryzen CPU squeezed to the max is quite demanding on memory. Even the lowly Jaguar had memory contention problems when running along side a medium end GCN1 GPU on a wide memory bus.

 

[iroboto]

Wireless docking station would be awesome, I don't mind the PS4 one I have but the Xbox one (by same company) is utter trash.

On the flip side of the discussion you can't be wrong whether you guess MS or Sony. Chances are, if this spec is accurate, 90% of it will be shared between the two.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Perhaps the re-tooling to 7nm+ isn't as simple?

What would they have to re-tool? It's a new SoC.

They'd probably have to start mass producing the SoCs early next year, and AMD hasn't had a 7nm+ design ready for tape-out yet?

Zen 3 and RDNA 2 are confirmed to be N7+, both releasing in 2020.
And why would they need to mass produce the new SoCs early next year, if the consoles are only releasing during the holidays?

 

[iroboto]

Zen 3 and RDNA 2 are confirmed to be N7+, both releasing in 2020.

If you're Zen 2 declared though, aren't you locked to 7nm unless you had them redesign it for N7+? Perhaps that's for a future reduction? or skip n7+ and release on the next node following?

 

[iroboto]

@anexanhume posted this;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1181594136236838914

hmm. that's is curious AF. So their solution is AMD then. We can rule out another vendor.
But I would find it very curious that AMD would allow MS to just bob ahead and say hey we got hardware RT at E3 but Sony wasn't allowed to say so until months after MS. Unless of course there are marketing provisions in place or if MS is not using AMD's solution.

 

[iroboto]

More details on resetera; they are investing a lot of effort into verifying whether they will succeed at full BC for PS5. I guess worst case scenario a couple titles fail.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/re...y-can-secure-a-complete-compatibility.145778/

 

[Pinstripe]

What would they have to re-tool? It's a new SoC.

It's still Zen2/RNDA~1ish architecture though. I don't think AMD has anything 7nm+ ready until Zen3/RDNA2.

And why would they need to mass produce the new SoCs early next year, if the consoles are only releasing during the holidays?

Assembling, Logistics, QA, Marketing, Building up massive stock. Etc. Takes an awful lot of time, and the SOCs need to ready for the whole pipeline.

 

[RDGoodla]

Ok, now I can talk.

One of the two console will be composed by:
- single soc: on basic 7nm process at TSMC, not 7nm+ or 6nm
- cpu: 8 Zen2 core @2.2GH with SMT enabled, they will call them "custom", but it will just normal plumbing work to adapt the cache to the soc
- gpu: based on navi, hybrid between rdna and rdna2, @ about 7TF, frequency not finalized, hardware RT (no info if proprietary or amd's technology)
- memory: 24GB GDDR6 on a 384bit bus, bw not finalized, but expected at around 800GB/s
- ssd: 2TB soldered
- usb: 3.2 Gen. 2, type C, 1.5A
- size: comparable to actual xbox one x
- new very low power mode with less than 2 seconds from power button push to dashboard
- controller: current gen's evolutionary iteration, rechargeable with off the shelf cables

We have rumors about PS5 Pro recently.

If PS5 Pro is a faster console with 11~12TF GPU then the above specs become very interesting. Because PS5 and PS5 Pro may have the same memory system with different bandwidth. PS5 Pro may have 800GB/s while PS5 may be around 600GB/s.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Ok, now I can talk.

One of the two console will be composed by:
- cpu: 8 Zen2 core @2.2GH with SMT enabled, they will call them "custom", but it will just normal plumbing work to adapt the cache to the soc

Sounds just like something Microsoft would do, honestly. LMAO.