Next-gen Cross-Platform Strategy [2020]

[Xbat]

, or even travel in a faster way within them.

This is a big thing for me. It's one of my pet peeves when I've got a super car in an open world game or whatever and I'm clearly limited how fast I can go because the streaming isn't up to it.

 

[Nesh]

Especially the fast travel loadings. The loading times in fast travel for many games are totally killing the player. FF15 was a pain in the ass

 

[goonergaz]

You can't be serious on that one? If you mean the first TS for PS2, the graphics wasn't what it had going for it. SSX was probably the best looking game @launch, together with Tekken Tag Tournament and the bouncer perhaps. Those are all a far-cry from what was going to come to the PS2 though.

Edit: TS had 4 player splitscreen mode though, wasn't all that common back then. I remember i had to buy the multitap for gaming with friends.

I was going to mention SSX but I wanted to just list one for each machine and I thought TS did a lot more, yes - the 4 player split-screen was great but there was also things like use of dual thumbs (a completely new control method for FPS games) meant I considered it next gen (let alone the graphical upgrade - I believe it also ran at 60FPS). Then there was also the map maker - which again was a totally new thing. It was awesome, me and a couple of mates all worked at a hospital and I made a level based on the hospital with short-cuts and everything, many great evenings we had! I totally think TS was a true "nextgen" game.

Really, show me any game on PS1 that looked anything like it it?

This.

I think people really do undersell 'new gen' games...I appreciate it's a slow start and slim pickings, but I really like the start of new generations.

 

[goonergaz]

And let’s not confuse things. One thing is that we have to wait years to see a game using the hardware to the full. Other is to see a game using the hardware.

The extra CPU and SSD reading speed will be there day one. And it doesn’t take any magic for them to show their power.
New and improved physics models, new AI models, can be used just because up to 4 or more times the Jaguar compute power is availabe. Without having to explore the hardware a lot of doors will be available day one. Better world interaction, better animations, better everything can just be used because the compute power is there.
Associate this with the ssd speed that will also just be available day one, and you can create more complex worlds, or even travel in a faster way within them.
Remember the spider man speed demo Sony showed? How about a The Flash game in a city like that? It would never be possible on older hardware, but it will now be possible day one.

Creating compatibility with older consoles will deny access to all this. The CPU will only be used for extra fps, eventually a couple more NPCs, and that’s about it. There is just so much you can improve without changing the game mechanics core that allows you to say that you are playing the exact same game on all consoles.

The SSD will only allow faster level charges, bigger depth of view, and less clipping, but that is also about it.

If this console lasts 7 years, 2 years without using it’s hardware features in the way possible, is a lot. And if we believe a mid gen console is released, then the XsX is not worth the buy yet, specially for those who have an X or a PC.
For those with 1080p TVs, keeping the S for a couple years more may also be an option. The first party games will be there, and the thirds will probably not drop support either due to the larger user base.

I totally agree, I also wonder if it means their use of the new tech might also lag - so when Sony are on year 4 hitting the hardware stride, MS are still 2 years behind on the learning curve.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

I totally agree, I also wonder if it means their use of the new tech might also lag - so when Sony are on year 4 hitting the hardware stride, MS are still 2 years behind on the learning curve.

I also remembered that... Knowledge comes from using the hardware, from optimizing routines. And if there is no need, there is no use. So, that's a possibility!

 

[PSman1700]

Then there was also the map maker - which again was a totally new thing. It was awesome, me and a couple of mates all worked at a hospital and I made a level based on the hospital with short-cuts and everything, many great evenings we had! I totally think TS was a true "nextgen" game.

There was a hospital map in TS Future perfect i think it was But yes in that sense coming from PSX it ofcourse was on another level. Tekken Tag had some great graphics for the time too, one of the most 'clean' PS2 graphics, if not the most.

 

[goonergaz]

There was a hospital map in TS Future perfect i think it was But yes in that sense coming from PSX it ofcourse was on another level. Tekken Tag had some great graphics for the time too, one of the most 'clean' PS2 graphics, if not the most.

Wait...they stole my map!!?? lol

Not really a fighter fan myself so I missed that...although I did enjoy ready 2 rumble.

 

[milk]

People doubting the oomph of next-gen's launch lineup will eat their words when they see KNACK 3 with support for full 3 PLAYER COOP.
Greatness awaits™...

 

[Cyan]

True, but GRAW wasn't a launch title. It came out 4 or 5 months later. Honestly, I don't think games looked really "next gen" until Gears came out in November 2006, but GRAW was certainly a looker. Not sure how it compared to the OG Xbox version but IIRC they were actually different games. The point I was making is that launch games that are graphically revolutionary, stuff like Mario 64 or Panzer Dragoon, that's not going to happen anymore. And if you are limited by display technology, it's going to be ever harder to wow people.

inter-generational games always existed and coexisted --no difference now.

DF is a tech site but I also think that for those who don't buy the X Series and get the game, the game will be there in case they're curious to move on to something better and switch to the new console. Imho, it is not as bad politics as it's said out there, rather the opposite. Early adopters rich, pocket-ready users, don't grant a sale, but inter-generational user just add to it.

 

[Nesh]

inter-generational games always existed and coexisted --no difference now.

DF is a tech site but I also think that for those who don't buy the X Series and get the game, the game will be there in case they're curious to move on to something better and switch to the new console. Imho, it is not as bad politics as it's said out there, rather the opposite. Early adopters rich, pocket-ready users, don't grant a sale, but inter-generational user just add to it.

I think now they will take a form that was not possible before. For example you might be able to open a portal that leads directly to the other edge of the map, or be able to open any portal you want to any dimension you want.
Zero loading times to load a massive area

 

[Cyan]

I think now they will take a form that was not possible before. For example you might be able to open a portal that leads directly to the other edge of the map, or be able to open any portal you want to any dimension you want.
Zero loading times to load a massive area

actually some sport games would also benefit from that. NBA 2k19 for instance becomes idle -response wise- when you ask for a time-out, because it is loading in between scenes. With SSD or M2, NvME, that wouldnt happen and the gameplay could be super fluid the entire game.

 

[Cyan]

It seems like the Xbox Series X could use the extra power from the CPU to run Raytracing on the CPU. This is what you can infer from this Turn 10 conference, and the tech is going to be implemented in the next Forza:

https://schedule.gdconf.com/session...pu-using-a-procedural-dependency-graph/869182

Disable RT => Jaguar can run the game as the Series X?

 

[AlNom]

Baked dynamic lighting?

 

[chris1515]

It seems like the Xbox Series X could use the extra power from the CPU to run Raytracing on the CPU. This is what you can infer from this Turn 10 conference, and the tech is going to be implemented in the next Forza:

https://schedule.gdconf.com/session...pu-using-a-procedural-dependency-graph/869182

Disable RT => Jaguar can run the game as the Series X?

No it help to artist because the placement of baked light probes is not manual.

 

[dobwal]

I don't think people should expect mid gen consoles this gen. Huge APUs that may sell 10-15 million units over a number of years, doesn't look at that all that feasible at 5nm

And let’s not confuse things. One thing is that we have to wait years to see a game using the hardware to the full. Other is to see a game using the hardware.

The extra CPU and SSD reading speed will be there day one. And it doesn’t take any magic for them to show their power.
New and improved physics models, new AI models, can be used just because up to 4 or more times the Jaguar compute power is availabe. Without having to explore the hardware a lot of doors will be available day one. Better world interaction, better animations, better everything can just be used because the compute power is there.
Associate this with the ssd speed that will also just be available day one, and you can create more complex worlds, or even travel in a faster way within them.
Remember the spider man speed demo Sony showed? How about a The Flash game in a city like that? It would never be possible on older hardware, but it will now be possible day one.

Creating compatibility with older consoles will deny access to all this. The CPU will only be used for extra fps, eventually a couple more NPCs, and that’s about it. There is just so much you can improve without changing the game mechanics core that allows you to say that you are playing the exact same game on all consoles.

The SSD will only allow faster level charges, bigger depth of view, and less clipping, but that is also about it.

If this console lasts 7 years, 2 years without using it’s hardware features in the way possible, is a lot. And if we believe a mid gen console is released, then the XsX is not worth the buy yet, specially for those who have an X or a PC.
For those with 1080p TVs, keeping the S for a couple years more may also be an option. The first party games will be there, and the thirds will probably not drop support either due to the larger user base.

This is expounded upon every generation. Lowest common denominator is a development strategy, it is not a reality forced on every dev who supports lower-end hardware. Supporting low-end hardware does not force you to gimp high-end offerings.

Plenty of devs use the most common platforms (consoles) as their base development platforms and pour money into making sure the base hardware is fully utilized. They then proceed to optimize (gimp) their games until it fits within the capability of lower-end hardware. Toning down physics and AI are all possible. Plus this gen, a ton on hardware performance is going to be wasted on pixel pushing.

Do you think id software, EA and Ubisoft holds or held back the capability of Doom, Fifa and Assassin Creed Odyssey on the Xbox and PS because those series or titles are supported on the Switch?

The biggest advantage of using a lowest common denominator strategy is that it is cheap. The disadvantages is that it can create competitive disadvantages on high-end hardware that have large userbases.

If you are a dev with limited funds the lowest common denominator strategy might be the best strategy to support multiple markets. But huge pubs with high profile titles aren't typically going to sacrifice competitiveness on platforms with large userbases to accommodate the wide support across all hardware.

 

[PSman1700]

I don't people should expect mid gen consoles this gen.

Never did

 

[Jay]

I wouldn't be surprised at a mid gen again.
If you only think of one thing then I can see why may not think any point or likely.

Zen 3/4
Bigger and faster ssd
Hbm or some other memory tech
Much improved RT performance
More performent gpu.

May actually be able to do a rolling gen this time, where 1X had too many shortcomings (CPU and storage) .
Maybe xsx would make a decent lower end sku machine when next next gen comes.

So mid gen with eye to it being a rolling one. Even if its not a rolling one I could see a mid gen.

Also how long do people think a/this gen will be?
8, 6, 5 years?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

No launch games do, Knack and Shadowfall last gen... Meh. Order1886 was a tech demo. Rarely a console launch lineup is worth it. Games tend to come over the lifespan of a console. See the PS4, games started really coming 2015/16 and onwards, till the end (2020).

Although is slipped from launch day to launch window, Infamous Second Son on PS4 was a great game. I just replayed it (several good or evil karma play throughs) and it reminded it how good it's environment movement and combat was.

 

[upnorthsox]

I don't people should expect mid gen consoles this gen. Huge APUs that may sell 10-15 million units doesn't look at that all that feasible at 5nm

I agree somewhat, if both consoles are 10TF+ then I'd highly doubt there would be a mid-gen console. If Sony comes out with a 36CU@1.8 8.3TF console then I would expect one. If it's less than that, 7.8TF or less and/or no RT or worse an overheated 2.0Ghz console, I would expect them to pull the plug very early like 4 years or less.

This is expounded on every generation. Lowest common denominator is a development strategy, it is not a reality forced on every dev who supports lower-end hardware. Supporting low-end hardware does not force you to gimp high-end offerings.

...snip.....

I agree with pretty much all this and would just add that it's been that way for pretty much every gen. Weak boxes get gimped or get the weak port, no dev wants to gimp their best version.

 

[dobwal]

I agree somewhat, if both consoles are 10TF+ then I'd highly doubt there would be a mid-gen console. If Sony comes out with a 36CU@1.8 8.3TF console then I would expect one. If it's less than that, 7.8TF or less and/or no RT or worse an overheated 2.0Ghz console, I would expect them to pull the plug very early like 4 years or less.


I agree with pretty much all this and would just add that it's been that way for pretty much every gen. Weak boxes get gimped or get the weak port, no dev wants to gimp their best version.

I will agree but under the circumstances that the alleged power gap significantly hurts Sony hardware or software sales.