News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Acert93, Mar 8, 2012.

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  1. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    That sounds like a reasonable bet (per cycle) for anything but super SIMD friendly workloads.

    Pretty much like X87 high end cores power7 cores would fly around Xenon. Damned we forgot a lot of the complains at the beginning of this gen in regard to cryptic single thread performances.

    Luckily we still have Joker454 to remind us that some code (single thread obviously) was running fast on the xbox 700Mhz celeron than on Xenon :)

    Still we can't tell for sure, it could be power a2, or a new throughput oriented cpu cores.

    I had a long post some pages ago about the odds of a cpu cores feeding two SIMD instead of one. I would like the one Silet_guy or others knowledgeable members to tell us their opinion on the matter.
    Lets rephrase it so they can answer "how about a modified power7 including two reworked vmx 128 units?"
     
  2. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
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    Is that not what is going on in the x86 world? Does not Bulldozer offer the ability for a module to do 2x 128bit SSE or 1x 256bit AVX instructions (and iirc each Intel core has a 256bit AVX SIMD, and AVX2 coming with Haswell, that can be packed with multiple SSE, but I may be remembering wrong).

    So the idea of a "VMX ver. 2.0" in the Xbox3 where each core has 2x 128bit vector units would seem possible? Or depending on the execution unit strategy maybe even more? Also, didn't the way the VMX was designed in Xenon that the peak was lower than 115GFLOPs because you couldn't be co-issuing across the entire pipeline so the real max was just below 80GFLOPs?
     
  3. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    A module is more or less two cores, two scalar pipeline, two SIMD (can act as one).

    The idea would be 2 SIMD for one scalar pipeline. I wonder if it would be easier to feed two narrower SIMD than a bigger one. It may prove a bit costlier but could it be more efficient?

    With the scalar pipeline way more potent than say in Xenon it's (in my views) a given that a core would match two xenon cores even in the worse case scenario.

    As I said some page ago it could be a way to amortize the bigger front end and scalar pipeline on 2 SIMD vs one.
    I also wonder if OoO could limited to the scalar pipeline to lessen the cost of its implementation.
     
  4. JB9861

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    Well it will be interesting to see if Sony attempts to keep up. I'd be surprised because MS looks to be pulling out all the stops on several fronts.
     
  5. french toast

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    Thats much more like it!...thats the kind of stuff i was initially hoping to hear..and what i was expecting....
    Unless its something like 4x power 7 cores 4x SMT fully OoO..@5GHZ...equals= 16 threads or 'cores'..how would perform if they tried to make every thread efficient?

    Unless they have got IBM to design a specialised custom core again thats OoO very small and efficient..with out SMT?..other than that i can't see Microsoft fitting in 16 individual processors..connecting all those together is going to be a difficult to say the least.

    Rumours of HD 7000 graphics are nice to hear... it doesn't matter that PS4 will be more powerfull than this..no developer wpould be able to take advantage of it anyhow for the first 3 years..
     
  6. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
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    If the PS4 is really a 2 module (4 integer core) A8-3850 (rumors, unsubstantiated rumors) I don't think it is easily said it is "more powerful" than a 16 "core" Power 7 (4 core, 16 hardware thread) design. In fact I would think 4 discreet cores, each with 4 threads, is going to be a good leap ahead of a 2 module / 4 int core AMD APU as a CPU. Now the GPU pipeline could make things interesting but that really falls back to what MS, theoretically with this rumor, was using in the South Island product line. If it is a 7670, i.e. 6670 like the rumored PS4, that creates a situation where the PS4 may be able to do some things better with some elbow grease as well as snag some low laying graphics fruit; on the reverse I would think general code is going to very quickly run very fast on that Power7 as you have a ton of threads to throw stuff at. But if MS has, say, a Pitcairn class GPU it is a cake walk--a 4 core Power7 with a 7850 class GPU is going to stomp all over a A8-3850 CPU / 6670 (7670) GPU design. We are talking at least 2x the speed which is enough that we could be seeing one title at 720p and the other at 1080p or one at 30Hz and the other at 60Hz or one in 2D and the other with 3D. 10-25% performance difference won't shake the world, especially if the slower model is easier to develop for. If the slower model is also requiring more work that could be a problem.
     
  7. N2O

    N2O
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    well they said "Discrete sources at GDC also confirmed to the publication that developers expect Sony’s Playstation 4 to be more powerful than the next Xbox"

    maybe that's why EA angry about PS4 spec later(not what they expected)
    but who knows
     
  8. Megadrive1988

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    A believe a 16-core processor is possible. In the book "The Xbox 360 Uncloaked" the engineers talked about that they could fit 8-16 cores on a single chip for Xbox 360. Of course that never happened but I believe it could happen for Xbox3.
     
  9. ultragpu

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    I find it extremely funny and pointless how the author used the word "confirmed" as if it would make a heap of difference:lol:. I mean one can confirm their expectation of something without being actually correct about it.
     
  10. -tkf-

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    So what happened to the heat/power discussion? Everything is possible now?
     
  11. Rangers

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    Here's two alleged rumors from an alleged source :razz:

     
  12. DieH@rd

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    Anyone knows how power hungry is quadcore/16threaded Power7 CPU [some server variant]?
     
  13. Proelite

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    Source?
     
  14. french toast

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    Tomato:grin:
     
  15. Proelite

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    Sauce?
     
  16. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
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    The best thing I can find is 100W-170W from Anand.

    The high end would be for an 8 core @ 4.14GHz on 45nm. It is said to be a lot better than the Power6 architecture in performance and power efficency. Ars notes on Power7 versus Power6, "First in the chain is the 32KB L1 data cache, which has seen its latency cut in half, from four cycles in the POWER6 to two cycles in POWER7. Then there's the 256KB L2, the latency of which has dropped from 26 cycles in POWER6 to eight cycles in POWER7—that's quite a reduction, and will help greatly to mitigate the impact of the shared L3's increased latency."

    Anyways, moving to 32/28nm, cutting out extra silicon not necessary for a console, going with a lower clocked 4 core (16 thread) variant should get a more reasonable power envelop. But... it is still likely to be much higher than a 2 module / 4 int core / 400 SP AMD APU.
     
  17. Silent_Buddha

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    If that second quote is even remotely true (I have my doubts), that would be an indication that at least MS plans to continue the "Hardware as a loss leader" route of console design and sales.

    Then again, perhaps their idea of "insane" is different than my idea of "insane." :p

    My idea of insane would be...

    [1] 64 programming environment. Please, oh please... That might mean more 64 bit versions of games without the 2 GB VA limit in Windows.

    [2] Massive number of cores, ok the rumor has that covered.

    [3] Enthusiast class GPU. While it'd certainly be entertaining to see that. I just don't see how that would be even remotely possible in a box meant to sit front and center in a family's home entertainment center. Heat - Noise - Size. Pick 2 to reduce because at least one of those is going to have to be very large for an enthusiast class GPU.

    [4] Fast SSD main storage with mandatory installs. Considering the rumor is that MS are including a BRD, that's also going to be a fairly large SSD.

    [5] 8-10 GB of memory. Depending on how serious they are about 4k (REALLY doubtful). 4 GB main and 4-6 GB video (if targetting 4k, much lower [2-4 GB] if not). Of course, this also means that [1] above would be mandatory.

    I obviously don't see that happening for less than 1K USD without MS eating a significant amount of the cost. :D So I'm going to guess my idea of insane isn't remotely close to their idea of insane. :p

    Regards,
    SB
     
  18. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    Considering the opinions of many on this forum any box not including blu-ray, backwards compatibility, launch profitability and a tdp under 200 watts could qualify as insane. So, that's a big window.
     
  19. Ninjaprime

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  20. french toast

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    Ha ha:lol:
     
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