News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

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Reserving an entire core for the OS is overkill IMO, but reserving yet another core for Kinect is just stupid. It should be optional, for developers that don't wish to use kinect, they have that extra core. Otherwise it would just sit there idle, unless MS believes every single game next gen will use the sensor.
As I say, it's highly unlikely Kinect is just going to exist for direct game conttrol as an optional input. More likely it'll be a constant system service, constantly monitoring players and the room and listening for instructions and the like. "Kinect. Play Rhianna Talk That Talk" fires up a background music no matter what game you're playing. MS are definitely going to want everyone conditioned to demand their devices the MS way. They are not going to want people talking to their TV boxes asking Siri to do stuff.
 
As I say, it's highly unlikely Kinect is just going to exist for direct game conttrol as an optional input. More likely it'll be a constant system service, constantly monitoring players and the room and listening for instructions and the like. "Kinect. Play Rhianna Talk That Talk" fires up a background music no matter what game you're playing. MS are definitely going to want everyone conditioned to demand their devices the MS way. They are not going to want people talking to their TV boxes asking Siri to do stuff.

Yeah I can see that happening and I still think it's a horrible idea. That's just asking for trouble when kinect acts but you're not necessarily talking to it. I turned of voice controls in Halo CEA since kinect was changing my brightness level or in ME3, the kinect heard the game's conversation and mistook it for me making a selection on the conversation wheel. I don't want facebook to pop up because I'm talking about facebook to someone in party chat. :p
 
Hmm, i wonder what way Sony goes if that is the case. 6 cores, 1/3 dedicated to OS and Kinect, of which Kinect is only usefull for the more family oriented games, which again looks at price. That would indicate a pretty cheap launch price.

Just... wow.

It is obvious Kinect1 has some issues with 3D movement and the most obvious sales angle has been fitness/active software (Dance Central, Kinect Sports, Fruit Ninja, etc) but your leap in assuming a new platform, starting as base 0 instead of a mid-generation launch needing a quick sales/marketing hook (see: active software), has much bearing on Kinect2 and what kind of software will work with it.

Hint: Tier 1 Developers have specifically communicated the issues surrounding the current Xbox 360/Kinect1 setup in translating such into core games, specifically 3D movement which most games lean heavily on. I wouldn't make many assumptions that the Xbox 3 platform with standard Kinect2 will face the same limitations. Furthermore, MS is pretty optimistic about Kinect being a potential future universal and ubiquitous user interface technology. Not just Xbox, but their version of the i-everything. Think of it as MS's version of multitouch. With MS noting more time spent on media than online gaming I don't think the user-interface-experienced can be so easily be slogged off as relevant to only "family friendly" markets.
 
Six cores with one dedicated to OS and one dedicated to Kinect makes a lot of sense from a game developement POV.

Consider that the holy grail of modern game development is being able to be multiplatform and hence better chance of recouping your investment.

Now consider that PC is one part of that. Quad core CPUs are fairly common for "core" PC type gamers. There's still the occasional dual core systems that gamers use but that is becoming increasingly rare.

More than 4 cores isn't likely to have mass consumer adoption in the PC space. Hence having 4 cores dedicated to gaming makes porting a much easier task. I'm going to also assume that the PS4 is going to have a minimum of 4 cores.

Hence 4 "cores" for games is the sweet spot. It makes porting from Xbox to PS to PC a bit less complicated. Unlike the current situation where you have Xbox (3 cores/6 threads), PC (2/4 cores), and PS3 (1 core + 6 SPEs).

Regards,
SB
 
As I say, it's highly unlikely Kinect is just going to exist for direct game conttrol as an optional input. More likely it'll be a constant system service, constantly monitoring players and the room and listening for instructions and the like. "Kinect. Play Rhianna Talk That Talk" fires up a background music no matter what game you're playing. MS are definitely going to want everyone conditioned to demand their devices the MS way. They are not going to want people talking to their TV boxes asking Siri to do stuff.

Yes exactly, and maybe things like automatic profile sign in using facial recognition - you won't believe how long signing people in takes when playing 4 player split screen.

I like Kinect (well the concept at least, if not the current iteration of the tech), I don't mind the fact that it'll come standard with the next 360, i'm sure developers will have lots of nifty uses for it in core games. Imagine being able to pick up and manipulate objects with your hands in the next Elder Scrolls game or in other first person games being able to interact with the world naturally (ie. pulling a lever, pushing an object or entering a code with your hand rather than just pressing X to interact).

And MS sees Kinect as far, far bigger than just a motion control peripheral for Xbox, so it's not going to be kept solely for casual audiences and away from interfering with the venerable 'Way of the Sweaty Gamepad' tradition of the hardcore - and this might not go down well
 
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Six cores with one dedicated to OS and one dedicated to Kinect makes a lot of sense from a game developement POV.

Regards,
SB

What about the rumours of the dual GPU setup? Perhaps they intend to use an on die GPU to run Kinect as well as the OS on a single core if they can use the GPU for many of those tasks?

In general: One thing to think about with dual GPU's as a rumour is that maybe they intend to release a cut down Arcade/Set top box/360 revision with all Kinect functionality enabled and the ability to play Xbox 360 games as well and simply produce the one CPU for both. That way they'd only have to support the one environment and they'd get great economies of scale by splitting it between two or more different products.

Edit: They could even release the new CPU/GPU combo this year as the 'Xbox 360+' and break in the new design before shrinking it for placement in the next generation console. It'd be a good way to get developers working on the new design seriously, early and it'd likely help prolong the old platform's lifespan a little.

Edit2: It'd also mean they could salvage parts. If they have 6 cores and they dedicate one to Kinect and another to the OS that'd still leave 3 cores for emulation/playing 360 titles.

Edit3: I guess it would also mean a move away from GDDR3, maybe DDR3 would be a cheaper option on a 128bit bus? In addition they could probably fab the CGPU on SOI and the GPU on bulk and combine the ED-RAM into the main CPU die for use in GPGPU and emulation?
 
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The bolded is why I take issue with Kinect being standard. As an option, it wouldn't effect the overall BOM IMO since they could just charge extra for the SKU bundled with the sensor. This is why making kinect standard is a wrong move IMO. They put limitations on how they can price the system over the course of the generation and the overall BOM of the complete package.

They have to include it in the box..if they want to standardise it and encourage developers to actually use it in a meaningfull way...the rumours of adding specialised hardware was actually something i suggested a couple of months ago..with that SOC speculation...certainly 1 dedicated specialised core would cut that lag out...improve the software....increase the quality and resolution of the cameras..yea i could real promie with it..especially in conjunction with some augmented reality specs like the recently demoed Google specs.;
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ould-allow-you-to-browse-the-web-7621626.html

Or just stereoscopic 3D would be able to pull of some inpressive minority report style stuff ;)

Im not sure you would need another whole core just for the operting system..i mean unless its running w8? surely a SINGLE OoO PPC 2 X SMT core would be able to handle both tasks with aplomb??

I hope the rumoured GPU specs are way off..seriously HD 6670?? in 2013?? terrible.
The Wii started this whole poor hardware+gimmick....and if true might well wreck out beloved Consoles...Apple will be lauging their heads off.
 
Just... wow.

It is obvious Kinect1 has some issues with 3D movement and the most obvious sales angle has been fitness/active software (Dance Central, Kinect Sports, Fruit Ninja, etc) but your leap in assuming a new platform, starting as base 0 instead of a mid-generation launch needing a quick sales/marketing hook (see: active software), has much bearing on Kinect2 and what kind of software will work with it.

Hint: Tier 1 Developers have specifically communicated the issues surrounding the current Xbox 360/Kinect1 setup in translating such into core games, specifically 3D movement which most games lean heavily on. I wouldn't make many assumptions that the Xbox 3 platform with standard Kinect2 will face the same limitations. Furthermore, MS is pretty optimistic about Kinect being a potential future universal and ubiquitous user interface technology. Not just Xbox, but their version of the i-everything. Think of it as MS's version of multitouch. With MS noting more time spent on media than online gaming I don't think the user-interface-experienced can be so easily be slogged off as relevant to only "family friendly" markets.

Fair enough, i didn't consider that the current kinect isn't the kinect we will see utilized with 720.

And this is of course 100% imho, but kinect is so far 100% casual fun games from where i stand.
Using the 360 UI with kinect is also more fun than usefull. As i said somewhere else, it is really really impressive technology and if they can improve it with kinect 2 to such an extent it can see when i press virtual buttons with my fingers we are getting somewhere.
 
They are half way there; Your Shape 2012 (which is quite good btw) has the best Kinect interface yet with "push buttons." Not with your fingers, mind you, but with your hand. Which it works and I highly doubt abstract space + fingers would work well. Holding your hand steady enough to navigate to a place in open space and "push" is a large motor movement, not fine.
 
Another pastebin rumor, who knows how accurate [or remotley true]. Add it to the OP pileup if you think it deserves so.
http://pastebin.com/0cGdu4gP

most important parts - 6 core IMB cpu, 4gb of ram [increased from 2gb after dev's bitched them about it], dual gpu.
 
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"Similar to Xenos from the beginning of this gen, its a pretty innovative chip."

well that's crazy
 
Another pastebin rumor, who knows how accurate [or remotley true]. Add it to the OP pileup if you think it deserves so.
http://pastebin.com/0cGdu4gP

most important parts - 6 core IMB cpu, 4gb of ram [increased from 2gb after dev's bitched them about it], dual gpu.
This Pastebin fella sounds super fishy, first he posted rumored spec about PS4, now he claims he never had any info about it? And the 8 core Durango he posted before is now down to 6 core? Ah getting so sick of rumors:(.
 
This Pastebin fella sounds super fishy, first he posted rumored spec about PS4, now he claims he never had any info about it? And the 8 core Durango he posted before is now down to 6 core? Ah getting so sick of rumors:(.

I assume you're joking but I think the point of pastebin is anybody can anonymously dump text there. This guy wouldn't be the same person as the other pastebin guy.

As for the content, who knows, sounds a little fanboyish. I do believe it'll be an IBM CPU though.
 
I wonder if some of the "Dual GPU" rumors are related to Xenos-Style eDRAM. i.e. In some ways Xenos was a Dual GPU: One GPU-chip with the main logic, bus, etc and a second GPU-chip with the ROPs and Framebuffer.
 
I envision dual GPU as a misinterpretation of the potential for the Xbox next to have both an APU (with integrated GPU) and a discrete GPU. The discrete GPU can be powered off completely for non-demanding games (casual titles) or when not in a game.

As well in demanding 3D games I don't see them using any sort of dual GPU rendering. Rather what seems more likely to me is that the discrete GPU will be used for 3D rendering while the APU is then tasked with doing GPU compute duties.

This isn't to say I believe the dual GPU rumors. But it seems to me the most plausible explanation for dual GPU in a console.

Regards,
SB
 
I wonder if some of the "Dual GPU" rumors are related to Xenos-Style eDRAM. i.e. In some ways Xenos was a Dual GPU: One GPU-chip with the main logic, bus, etc and a second GPU-chip with the ROPs and Framebuffer.

I was thinking in GPU+"Evolved eDRAM"+GPU in a chip.
 
I wonder if some of the "Dual GPU" rumors are related to Xenos-Style eDRAM. i.e. In some ways Xenos was a Dual GPU: One GPU-chip with the main logic, bus, etc and a second GPU-chip with the ROPs and Framebuffer.

Yes good idea..the APU could take the role as the daughter die...with a slab of cache for both the ROP's/z stencils and CPU cores...and the Discrete graphics like the xenos..with some UMA..
 
According to the latest issue of Xbox World magazine, devkits for Microsoft’s next generation console are already in the wild, and were shipped to developers in March. The first devkits reached a select number of developers after Microsoft’s hush-hush developer’s conference in London on February 28, 2012. The purpose of the conference was to brief European representatives on the new hardware, which is codenamed Durango – the meeting was subsequently confirmed by a senior technical artist at Crytek, who tweeted that he was “enjoying the Durango developers summit in London. So far, great swag and interesting talks.” Further meetings were held for American developers at the Game Developers’ Conference in San Francisco, with Durango devkits shipping “shortly afterwards.”

The publication states that current devkits will not mirror the final hardware in appearance, however, initial specifications are representative of the console set to ship in late 2013. Sources close to Xbox World magazine have revealed that Durango’s devkit features a “monster” 16-core IBM PowerPC CPU, a GPU comparable to AMD’s Radeon HD 7000-series graphics cards, and a Blu-Ray optical drive.

“Even if you had a 16-core processor in your gaming PC there are currently no games built to use it, but games for the next Xbox could put all sixteen cores to work on day one for a level of performance far in excess of current gaming PCs. It’s a ridiculous amount of power for a games machine – too much power, even. But remember, Kinect 2 could chew up four whole cores tracking multiple players right down to their fingertips, so it’ll need a lot of power.”

Discrete sources at GDC also confirmed to the publication that developers expect Sony’s Playstation 4 to be more powerful than the next Xbox, and that various studios are aiming to unveil their next generation software at E3 2012 in June, regardless of whether “Microsoft and Sony are ready or not.”

“Regardless of whether the next Xbox makes it to E3, the arrival of those Durango devkits is the starting gun for the next generation and once again Microsoft have beaten Sony out of the gate by getting hardware into the developers’ hands first. Sony keep denying any possibility of PS4 at E3 2012 too, but if they don’t move fast Microsoft could roll into June’s LA showcase with dozens of next-generation exclusives from third-parties. When Epic shows that first Unreal 4 demo they’ll only have one console platform to talk about – call it Durango, call it 720, call it what you like, but if Microsoft move fast it might be the only game in town.”

http://sillegamer.com/2012/04/06/xbox-720-devkit-specs-detailed-includes-16-core-processor/
Rumor number "over 9000", provided by latest issue of Xbox World magazine:
- 16 "core" IMB CPU [most likely quadcore Power7 with 16threads ]
- Radeon 7xxx series GPU [no mention of dual setup]
- Bluray drive
- Kinec taking up to four "cores"
- they are expecting PS4 to be even more powerfull [nothing concrete]
- 3rd party devs will maybe reveal some nextgen games on this year's E3
 
A Power7, even stripped of some of the non-console stuff like the XML and I/O features for the original market audience, is going to be a big chip, even with a reduction in eDRAM. iirc a Power7 has 32MB of eDRAM for an 8 core.

On the flip side a 4 core Power7 (16 thread) versus a 3 core Xenon (6 thread) is a total laugher. The Power7 runs circles around the Xenon per core. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if silent_guy or someone else came in and gave an educated guess that 1 Power7 core (4 threads) is faster than 2 Xenon cores (4 threads) by a wide margin.
 
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