News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[dobwal]

Why? AMD are onto their third generation of heterogeneous systems now which they developed all by themselves. What has IBM ever designed in this space aside from Cell which was a co-development with Sony and Toshiba?

Given that Cell showed up 4-5 years before AMD's apu and was far more exotic in its initial design than fusion, I seriously doubt. AMD is as versed as IBM, Sony and Toshiba contribution included. IBM designs heterogenous system across several different archs with hardware from other vendors and has been doing it for a very long time.

IBM has filed more patents than any other company every year for the last 20 years and with heterogeneous designs being a major component of IBM revenue, I seriously doubt AMD pours as much resources into exploring this particular area as IBM.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Given that Cell showed up 4-5 years before AMD's apu and was far more exotic in its initial design than fusion,

What does how exotic it is have to do with how good it is? And the fact that IBM's last attempt at a heterogeneous system which had anything remotely to do with a games machine appeared on the market 7 years ago while AMD is producing them today using modern technology goes against them, not for them.

Even when it was the pinnacle of design Cell still had to be combined with an off the shelf GPU from another vendor to make a viable console. AMD are in a position today to supply complete SoC solutions that can power a games machine all by itself.

I seriously doubt. AMD is as versed as IBM, Sony and Toshiba contribution included. IBM designs heterogenous system across several different archs with hardware from other vendors and has been doing it for a very long time.

IBM has filed more patents than any other company every year for the last 20 years and with heterogeneous designs being a major component of IBM revenue, I seriously doubt AMD pours as much resources into exploring this particular area as IBM.

Yes indeed. How do IBM GPU's perform again? But nevermind that. They are clearly still more qualified to build a SoC heterogeneous architecture than AMD.

 

[wco81]

As interesting as I find HDMI In, I actually think it'll be better suited for legacy uses because it lacks any elegant two-way control with your existing DVR. To me, that's a pretty terrible experience and the main reason why Google TV has flopped for 2 years.

If Microsoft really wants to go after the TV market, then the 720 needs to stand on its own as a DVR. My scenario would call for a separate CableCard gateway not much different from a SiliconDust HD HomeRun Prime that would take in coax then connect to your network and stream channels directly to the 720 for live TV and recording. They can leverage their Media Center technology and their existing TV guide UI that Verizon FiOS uses to build in a great DVR.

I also think that the idea of cut down Durango SKUs where parts are removed makes little sense since ideally, you'd want those people to upgrade to the full box in some fashion. Instead, this is why that $99 Xbox 360 subscription trial was so important, to gather data about how to subsidize a product. This is why Microsoft's BOM budget is so tightly controlled to hit a very likely $399 price point, so that subsidized, you get that magical $199 price (w/ 2 year contract or something) that is so alluring with cellphones that it makes the PS4 at a hypothetical starting price of $429 seem super expensive.

My *long* 2 cents.

I'd like to see that product if for nothing else than to bring competition to the space. But getting a Cable Card product certified took Silicon Dust a long time so MS would have to be doing it now.

They could just make it work with the Home Run Prime, though having to buy a $150 peripheral may dampen adoption of the DVR feature.

 

[BRiT]

As I said before and I'll repeat it again, Microsoft has no need to go for CableCard interfaces. They already have an integration point with existing large media cable cartels in the US using IPTV. The existing XB360 can already serve as a set top box with AT&T and Verizon and I believe Charter is in the works. There's rumors of it being worked on with TimeWarner and Cox Communications as well. The industry in the US is moving away from CableCard.

 

[ramr]

Your posts have been based on releasing multiple SKUs each with wildly varying hardware meanwhile you're also stating that you only need one software version.

You're also expecting a piece of hardware that is streamed games.
Dumb idea in my opinion. Much better to allow streaming to all devices through Apps.
The "only I can do this!" doesn't work very well unless you already have a significant market share and I don't think I see Microsoft dominating the tablet market with Microsoft branded tablets (which is different from having tablets that run Windows 8 OS).

And you're expecting that to crush every opposition that exists.

Not gonna happen. Microsoft is rich but not that rich.
I also do not see Microsoft becoming a HW company in the foreseeable future.
They might try to work in that direction but it's just not what they are.
Furthermore, making multiple devices to slice up the market doesn't necessarily expand the market itself. Shrinks it in some cases.


You also disregard the time and cost it takes to properly design ONE hardware and get it right.
Apple managed to get iphone and the ipad right and those two things came three full years apart and one was heavily dependent on the success of the other.

Same os across all devices, scaled appropriately, with exception for 360ss. Harware is integrated and scaled, basically 1 new platform and existing 360.
STB and surface share hardware with WP8/9 devices, scaled appropriately, probably ARM
360 SS is lower cost version of existing platform, double as STB + console, plays 360 games, MS uses to it to harvest like sony did ps2
Durango = STB arm + leaked APU
Surface server = STB arm + 2x apu

Ballmer has explicitly stated that they are a hardware company
Surface tablet is gaming focused not iPad competitor. smartglass also works on other devices.

Again it is all speculation. Surface server leak had IBM cpu. Like I said, existing durango specs don't make a lot of sense from a strategy standpoint, with possible exception of having a $99 SKU with 2 yr live contract. The reasons that you listed for not going this route are the exact reasons which support it, i.e. it integrates surface, STB, and durango into a unified software / hardware architecture.

STB likelihood > 95%
some version of 720 100%
Xbox surface tablet - existence >95%, actually launch maybe ~ 75%
Home server - fairly high as it is cornerstone for owning the home, problem is existing specs for durango aren't good enough to serve that function

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Again it is all speculation.

It's also mostly off topic as your talking MS's long-term business strategy rather than Durango. The limit of your argument is, "I expect MS are expanding their Windows software platform with software compatibility across devices. There's a whole other thread on this where I'll go into detail. But I do see Durango as fitting into that strategy."

A bit of subject flexibility is of course allowed to discuss the context of Durango, but posters need to know when to draw the line themselves. You can agree to disagree in one thread, and take up the argument in another (like this one).

Surface server leak had IBM cpu.

Server 'leak' wasn't a leak. It was make-believe. (You mean the one with the SCSI HDDs, right?)

 

[dagamer]

It's cheaper and more profitable in the long run to sell a 720 subsidized that it is to come up with and validate a completely brand new SKU.

 

[DopeyFish]

Let me add that I'll believe the HDMI input when I see it, and I'm glad that the published specs from Sony have already shot it down for the PS4. Not because it's impossible, but rather that a) never seen it done before apart from AV receivers, and b) can't imagine it makes business sense (but I'm sort of limited in this department).

Business POV is consumer engagement

Having invites, sale alerts (from a wish list) and other stuff such as Skype, info apps, whatever either layered in or having the feed HDMI in shrunk to accommodate personal tickers or whatever

I dunno about you, but being able to watch sports and then immediately flip to other content without ever touching my TV remote is pretty fantastic

Now at the top level... You have all your content... Games, TV, Internet coming in through one device. Its less an attack on Sony and more of an attack on smart TVs... Even if it ends up as a leg up on their competition

 

[Squilliam]

This is the HDMI CEC standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC

The most interesting IMO parts are the tuner control, I guess that means that the Xbox ought to be able to tell the cable device to switch to X channel. There is also one touch play, one touch record, volume, time record etc. I would say that an Xbox with inline HDMI ought to be able to tell the cable box to record X program, or switch to Y channel at a set time and record X program and directly play any stored information on the device. I don't think there are too many cable companies/satellite companies so as a standard it ought to be workable with the most common dozen or so devices.

 

[onQ]

From MCVUK

Microsoft to spill Xbox 720 beans this week?

The press could get its first look at the Xbox 720 this Wednesday, it is being claimed.


“Wait, select press are going to be at the Microsoft fiscal year 2014 event this week?” Superannuation Tweeted. “I thought that it was MS partners only. Hmm. There are a bunch of invite-only sessions about Xbox.”


Microsoft's FY2014 Event is not normally a place for game or tech briefings with the games press, and is normally reserved for investors and publishing partners.


However, the event's timetable shows invite-only sessions across both Wednesday March 6th and Thursday March 7th. They carry titles such as “IEB Xbox Platform Overview”, “Xbox Platform Deep Dive” and “Xbox Games”. Only one of the early sessions references “Xbox 360” by name.


It is entirely plausible that Microsoft has decided to use the pre-scheduled event to grant press a first look at its new console following Sony's decision to debut the PS4 at a globally viewed dedicated press briefing last month.


Press could likely be directed to start issuing information as early as this week – a prolonged embargo would not seem to work in Microsoft's favour. Certainly, a behind closed doors demonstration this early in year would seem to suggest that the machine will be revealed way ahead of E3 in the summer.

Edit: seems to be a false alarm.

 

[rockaman]

I'll bet they stick to the April 26 rumour. Seems the most legitimate. These company exclusive events seem to be doing wonders.

 

[astrograd]

From MCVUK

Microsoft to spill Xbox 720 beans this week?




Edit: seems to be a false alarm.

No, it's real. It's just not going to be a public unveiling or any kind. It's internal, invitation only. I doubt we even get leaks (unfortunately).

 

[dagamer]

This is the HDMI CEC standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC

The most interesting IMO parts are the tuner control, I guess that means that the Xbox ought to be able to tell the cable device to switch to X channel. There is also one touch play, one touch record, volume, time record etc. I would say that an Xbox with inline HDMI ought to be able to tell the cable box to record X program, or switch to Y channel at a set time and record X program and directly play any stored information on the device. I don't think there are too many cable companies/satellite companies so as a standard it ought to be workable with the most common dozen or so devices.

HDMI-CEC is interesting tech, too bad almost no cable box supports it. And because they have little desire to get new boxes, your idea is a non-starter.

Any successful attempt to change how we interact with cable TV will require total control of the experience. HDMI likely exists so that the system can overlay notifications on the TV if you are watching something else.

 

[SanGreal]

As I said before and I'll repeat it again, Microsoft has no need to go for CableCard interfaces. They already have an integration point with existing large media cable cartels in the US using IPTV. The existing XB360 can already serve as a set top box with AT&T and Verizon and I believe Charter is in the works. There's rumors of it being worked on with TimeWarner and Cox Communications as well. The industry in the US is moving away from CableCard.

Verizon is not an IPTV service although they do have a limited selection of (75) channels available on XBL. The 360 could be used on AT&T U-verse as a STB but only 10,000 people did this and it isn't offered anymore.

 

[rockaman]

If you listen to Tellem, Xbox Live is becoming an entertainment network, with interactive TV content coming in the future. Dare I suggest original programming? Tellem is responsible for Xbox Entertainment Studios, based in Los Angeles, which produced an interactive red carpet experience for the Grammys and another for the upcoming Academy Awards. Kinect Sesame Street TV is project, too.

Anyone using console and cloud service surely can see where Microsoft is headed. From games to Hulu, Netflix, U-verse and Xbox Music -- or Kinect -- the 360 strives far from its video games roots. The question: How much more can the Redmond, Wash.-based company take Xbox?

Much depends on the efforts of execs like Mehdi and Tellem to make the content deals, or to extend the broader entertainment platform separate from and alongside Xbox 360's successor, which is expected for holiday 2013.

"When I worked in traditional TV, we would find ourselves saying things like 'Wouldn’t it be cool if we could add an interactive aspect directly into the show and engage directly with the viewers?'" Tellem says. "With Xbox, that is possible today".

Kinect's role cannot be understated. This year, Microsoft plans to release 40 voice-controlled, customized television apps. Prime objective: Interactivity, using the new user interface, or NUI.

http://betanews.com/2013/02/12/the-future-of-xbox-isnt-gaming/

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

That's what they need to do.

More like 1v100, still one of the best, if not the best experience this generation had to offer.

I know it was expensive and had its quirks and bugs, but it's exactly the sort of interactive TV that get people to move away from "time shifting" and decreasing advertising revenue due to skipping ads and back to making certain times of the night/day "must see tv".

Live TV is where the ad revenue is. Interactive TV forces it to be live. Original programming seems almost like a requirement.

 

[Jwm]

As I said before and I'll repeat it again, Microsoft has no need to go for CableCard interfaces. They already have an integration point with existing large media cable cartels in the US using IPTV. The existing XB360 can already serve as a set top box with AT&T and Verizon and I believe Charter is in the works. There's rumors of it being worked on with TimeWarner and Cox Communications as well. The industry in the US is moving away from CableCard.

Not to mention CableCard would be a bad idea for those with Satellite service, so you are limiting your audience if you only had a cable card solution.

This whole DVR thing seems over complicated, unless the HDMI in with an IR blaster maybe would work. I don't know, I like my cable card Ceton PCI-E card, and it was nice to drop the cable box fees, but what is the best solution with a console. I used to use an HD-PVR with an IR blaster to record all my content, but this was usually not without channel misses and later an angry spouse.

If the Durango was a STB you would have to develop versions for different providers right? MS was working with ATI at one point on a DirecTV USB tuner, but stopped development on that in what 2009?

HDMI In makes some sense, but not without a way to switch channels on the box. IR blaster would work even if it is not the most elegant solution. HDMI CEC is not widely used correct? This would also limit how many channels you can record at once naturally, unless you keep a separate DVR and the Xbox just controls it in some fashion.

However, what would make more sense is working with providers to have an Xbox tuner that would also play games. You have to work with each provider here, so rollout would be phased I am sure. HDMI In from this box to the Durango with communication between the two. (In this solution I would still like the STB Xbox to stream 720 games, so I can use it as an extender for both media and full games without the expense of having a Durango in every room of the house - ugh but not if I have to rent them from the cable co.)

In my mind it would be a great feature to have an extender, even if it is just an improved 360SS with STB features - all with the ability to stream 720 games with no loss in control speed.

Sorry for the messy post - was thinking about all this earlier and had more thoughts while typo-ing.

 

[SanGreal]

Don't know about other providers, but all my STBs (Verizon) can be controlled over the network via apps

 

[wco81]

I'm on Direct TV and there are no third-party DVRs. They offer their own and a version running Tivo and that's it. They have their own access card technology. MS was going to support that in WMC but after some PR announcement, they didn't do it. Or if they did it, it didn't go anywhere.

If I were to switch to Comcast, I would need a Cable Card device, either an HTPC with a Cable Card tuner or a Tivo with Cable Card.

 

[expletive]

Don't know about other providers, but all my STBs (Verizon) can be controlled over the network via apps

That's a good point, HDMI in with ip control of the stb. The current verizon apps can also send a discreet code to record a specific program or series from an epg, which would be needed if the xbox would also load epg data and let users record programs dirctly from the xbox ui. Only problem with that is not every cable provider is this far along the curve so i think ir might be the fall back.

I'm on Direct TV and there are no third-party DVRs. They offer their own and a version running Tivo and that's it. They have their own access card technology. MS was going to support that in WMC but after some PR announcement, they didn't do it. Or if they did it, it didn't go anywhere.

If I were to switch to Comcast, I would need a Cable Card device, either an HTPC with a Cable Card tuner or a Tivo with Cable Card.

Not a problem:
http://www.directv.com/technology/mobile_apps/ipad