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MS did absorb that one company (or was it one person, heh) a few years back that was doing a third-party program for controlling your guide and being able to set recordings over the net. I had it installed for a bit and it worked well enough at the time (thinking 2007/8ish). The Ceton app is great actually on phones, if it would only stream your recorded content it would be a killer app - if MS could improve on this maybe within SmartGlass. I have been using Media Center for so long that I am clueless on what the STB's that I have had over the years actually did, I would just set the IR blaster and be done with it.
Because I have been on Media Center for so long and the 360's involved in that eco-system I am I really curious of Durango goes anywhere with this. It has been a great program, way under advertised for sure. But the recent lack of updates and lack of Kinect which would work great with it have been curious. I still wonder if MS is going to improve it all with Durango, or if it has been put out to pasture.
A long time ago I could stream the recorded content to our Dell Axim, and when I would show our friends they were amazed by what Media Center was doing. Surprised it is all taking so long to improve upon these things to be honest, always a bit sad to see. Please MS bring this to SmartGlass, if you can allow this to work for live and recorded content I can have my TV back for games!
Because I have been on Media Center for so long and the 360's involved in that eco-system I am I really curious of Durango goes anywhere with this. It has been a great program, way under advertised for sure. But the recent lack of updates and lack of Kinect which would work great with it have been curious. I still wonder if MS is going to improve it all with Durango, or if it has been put out to pasture.
A long time ago I could stream the recorded content to our Dell Axim, and when I would show our friends they were amazed by what Media Center was doing. Surprised it is all taking so long to improve upon these things to be honest, always a bit sad to see. Please MS bring this to SmartGlass, if you can allow this to work for live and recorded content I can have my TV back for games!
Sorry my point was more along the lines that if an iPad app can exert this level of control and interactivity over a directv stb, then certainly ms can also have the Xbox plug into this API as well. No ir blaster no cec required.
What if all this speculation of DVR features is just limited to the apps that are available the Xbox? Basically you're only allowed to use DVR on content you have accessible from Hulu, Netflix, etc? Something like PlayOn's PlayLater? Personally I would be fine with that. I don't have Cable TV or Satellite TV. Nor do I ever plan to. I do however have OTA but that's it. Microsoft has seen the future of TV & I personally don't ever see Microsoft going out of their way to support Cable TV, Cable Card or Satellite TV or any combination of those proprietary devices.
Tommy McClain
Tommy McClain
rockaman
Regular
I can't see how DVRing and recording Netflix and such content is legal when they distribute content intended for one time use. You can't record such content on any other TV set top box from an official distributor. Neither for any PPV content.
Either I'm missing something or MS is jumping through a lot of legal loopholes everyone here understands but me.
Doing these things through your PC is one thing, but recording movies using a MS box product that is intended for one-time viewing sounds extraordinary and too much so. If it has DVR capabilities it sounds more like it will be compatible with its own network of distribution or will have to comply with the rules of the network it wants to be compatible with.
Either I'm missing something or MS is jumping through a lot of legal loopholes everyone here understands but me.
Doing these things through your PC is one thing, but recording movies using a MS box product that is intended for one-time viewing sounds extraordinary and too much so. If it has DVR capabilities it sounds more like it will be compatible with its own network of distribution or will have to comply with the rules of the network it wants to be compatible with.
(((interference)))
Veteran
Pretty much, DF says so, most of the GAF insiders are in agreement (thuway, karak, proelite, andyh & bgassassin) and even ERP has heard ~3GB himself.
The xbox wouldn't be doing the recording, it would be controlling the DVR which *is* doing the recording and taking the video output of said STB as in input to overlay/display through the OS. There would be no additional permission needed as an HDMI passthrough AFAIK, the Logitech google TV actually did this already. What may cause some contention is if the the xbox were to stream this content to other devices in the home, i know that did cause some problems for cable providers when they came out with their iPad streaming apps.
PlayOn PlayLater is legal. OTA broadcasts were considered one-time viewing as well. No difference here. BTW HP announced at CES their Pocket Playlist that came bundled with PlayLater. Personally I would rather have this instead of my Xbox passing-thru a DVR I don't have or ever intend to buy.
Tommy McClain
Not to mention CableCard would be a bad idea for those with Satellite service, so you are limiting your audience if you only had a cable card solution.
This whole DVR thing seems over complicated, unless the HDMI in with an IR blaster maybe would work. I don't know, I like my cable card Ceton PCI-E card, and it was nice to drop the cable box fees, but what is the best solution with a console. I used to use an HD-PVR with an IR blaster to record all my content, but this was usually not without channel misses and later an angry spouse.
If the Durango was a STB you would have to develop versions for different providers right? MS was working with ATI at one point on a DirecTV USB tuner, but stopped development on that in what 2009?
HDMI In makes some sense, but not without a way to switch channels on the box. IR blaster would work even if it is not the most elegant solution. HDMI CEC is not widely used correct? This would also limit how many channels you can record at once naturally, unless you keep a separate DVR and the Xbox just controls it in some fashion.
However, what would make more sense is working with providers to have an Xbox tuner that would also play games. You have to work with each provider here, so rollout would be phased I am sure. HDMI In from this box to the Durango with communication between the two. (In this solution I would still like the STB Xbox to stream 720 games, so I can use it as an extender for both media and full games without the expense of having a Durango in every room of the house - ugh but not if I have to rent them from the cable co.)
In my mind it would be a great feature to have an extender, even if it is just an improved 360SS with STB features - all with the ability to stream 720 games with no loss in control speed.
Sorry for the messy post - was thinking about all this earlier and had more thoughts while typo-ing.
Getting DirecTV and Dish to support the Xbox 720 as a DVR isn't hard, since there are only 2 major satellite companies in the US. However, with cable TV, there are too many companies to try and directly strike deals with all of them. That's why you have to use the CableCard standard. The good news is that it would allow for 100% full integration with the system and no involvement with the cable company after initial pairing.
Again, trying to strike deals wine Comcast, Time Warner, Verizon, etc... would be mind-numbing and take forever. That's why as terrible an implementation as CableCard is, it 100% let's Microsoft skip any negotiations with those crooked companies.
I don't believe there will be a tuner. Its too messy with cable companies etc. MS see the future in IPTV, this is how programs will be streamed to the Xbox. Its absolutely no point supporting a legacy system such as tuners and the like. Besides, MS want to push Kinect integration and targeted advertising using NUAds. Hence, the rumour of Kinect being mandatory. Interactive IPTV streamed through the Xbox + Smartglass on your tablet is where MS want to go.
It's an intriguing idea if I'm honest, though I'm not sure how well the idea could be executed so that it would work well with the majority of people.
That center of equipment that does exactly that in my setup (and the setup of the majority of people I guess) is my receiver/sound-processor. It is the HDMI switch and most of my electronics, I can control by using the universal-controller that came with my receiver.
Of course, having the brute-force of a Xbox to do all nice fancy overlays over my inputs would be quite nice and something new. Apart from overlaying skype, new-email notifications and online chat (and some other services), I don't think it could do much more than that - if it is indeed going to sit between receiver and display. I don't think it can physically remote-control equipment that is connected to the receiver either - though I'm not sure on the boundaries of HDMI. I would think it could be quite a mess though. It becomes an even bigger mess if you factor in old equipment that only supports older version of HDMI.
I think the more obvious question though - would this be feasable?
Code:
TV-Box ------> Receiver ------> Xbox ------> Display
/______________________\
*Left: HDMI Input
*Right: HTMI OutputThis illustration shows IMO the only way such a set-up would really work. This way, the Xbox is always there and able to do overlays, regardless which source input the receiver is dialed into. However, I do think there is a problem in a practical sense:
First of all, if a skype call comes in or if you want to use a service on the Xbox and your receiver has the TV-Box input active (and that one is running), then of course, the sound would be exclusive to that input. There's no way, you could force the receiver to overlay the sound as well, or for it to switch to an alternative source where the Xbox is active. I'm not sure on the newest HDMI interface specifications, but I'm doubtful if this would work as perfect assuming average joe with his set-up has everything to newest spec. In most likelyhood though, he won't. What happens if receiver and/or tv-box are not compatible with any remote-control protocol being sent over HDMI from the Xbox?
Trying to do "everything" from your Xbox while relying on HDMI to pass along your control commands just sounds a bit too good to be true. For it to work to any acceptable standard, it would have to be flawless.
At the end of the day, while I'm sure it would offer a high tech experience (and with Kinect, potentially Minority Report kind of futurestic feature), it just sounds a bit messy. IMO this would work well if the Xbox would be the HDMI switch. But given how much money people spend on receivers (cheap or expensive), I'm doubtful if this will happen...
And limit yourself to DTS and AC3 instead of DTS-HD and TrueHD? Optical was good while it lasted, but I don't think this is a solution that is realistic nor one that would be getting the thumbs up from consumers that are at least a bit used to just using HDMI cables. I don't think it would be a big problem in using HDMI if the output of the Xbox only transmits audio. One way or another, this wouldn't solve the necessity of having to remote-control your receiver to select the correct input if a skype call or something comes in.
And depending on what kind of receiver you have, transitioning between source is anything but seamless. In my case, it can take up to two seconds (together with the projector) where the screen turns dark and the sound comes back. Regardless how hi-tech the experience would be, having those "blackouts" while your receiver follows the commands of the Xbox, it wouldn't be worthwhile.
rockaman
Regular
I think Netflix might have a very different opinion than you. Their idea is bringing the theater to the living room I think, not broadcast TV. I don't think the same rules apply. It certainly hasn't applied to distributors where I live. I can DVR plenty of stuff, but definitely not anything pay-per-view or Netflix.
This makes a lot more sense.
Tuners don't involve companies besides telling them to pair a CableCard with a box. IPTV would be far messier as you have to deal with each and every provider, and besides, it doesn't exist outside of AT&T.
CableCard, as imperfect as it is, is ready now. Microsoft can make deals for IPTV so that Durango can support it in the future, but there's no point in advertising hopes (remember the 360 was supposed to do IPTV after an announcement by Bill Gates, it never really did). Here's the 5-year old story demonstrating how hoping and praying won't get you very far: http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft-Xbox-360-IPTV-still-coming--eventually/2100-1041_3-6216082.html
In fact, if IPTV were viable in the US right now, Google wouldn't have to deal with HDMI in crap, Apple would support it in the Apple TV, and TV manufacturers would start officially support it. It's not as easy as it seems.
I think to do it, you have to do it all within MS and not rely on ATT for example. This would be a huge task, and you would have to repeat the process for other regions.
Is this a viable business model? HDMI "In" would only let you record one channel at a time, and an IR blaster would most likely be needed.
You can build a DVR box, but unless you include CableCard, Dish, DirecTV, etc tuning options. You are not going to hit the larger market that you want.
I can see doing this by re-inventing the wheel and starting with each network directly. Could be a slower process to accomplish, but maybe it would let you purchase just the channels you want as a consumer. I see lots of options, none of them exactly perfect for sure. Would this new LA office be up to the challenge of making IPTV work on a pure MS level?
SlickShoesRUCrazy
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the event is invite only for employees behind closed doors.
Rumors are there, maybe not a STB, so just going through things that could make sense. Services and HDMI "in" pass-through to me make more sense on many levels.
-I secretly dream of an update to Media Center and the extender apps (via 360) to allow for VC control though!-
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