News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[MBDF]

Just as an example, Kinect and the new Xbox could be used as a video phone. You would walk into the room and say "Xbox, phone Rob", the Xbox would awake from it's low power state and call Rob. But this wouldn't work nearly as well if the Xbox and the TV programming were on different inputs. You would have to turn on the TV then switch inputs.. With HDMI in and everything being fed through the Xbox, only one input would be needed, so the only thing one would have to do is turn on the TV. It's a small thing, but small things like that can add up. I could see video phoning becoming huge and common place thanks to the new Xbox and conveniences like HDMI in.

And that's not to mention the DVR capabilities which could be like DVD was for the PS2.

 

[wco81]

What exactly are the DVR capabilities?

I heard that MS is kind of dropping support or not doing much more development on WMC in Windows 8.

These days, people use the smart phones to make calls. Siri and Google Now handle the voice commands.

 

[whome0]

With HDMI in and everything being fed through the Xbox...the DVR capabilities which could be like DVD was for the PS2.

So hdmi-in sauce could mean DVR tuner box->(hdmi)->Xbox3->(hdmi)->TV, hdmi CEC control codes. Xbox can be in a lowpower state, dvr video out still works. Only thing left us doing is switching TV power on.
Say Xbox, record channel TV3. Xbox sends cec command to the dvr box for immediate recording of tv3 channel.
Say Xbox, switch to channel TV1. Xbox sends cec command to the dvr box for switching tuner frequency.
Say Xbox, show programme guide. Xbox retrieves tvguide from http server and displays kinect browseable programme guide on screen.
Browse guide, drill down to programme, Say Xbox, record program. Xbox sends appropriate cec commands to the dvr box.
*) User input is kinect or controller key presses.

Xbox is able(?) to render opaque overlay graphics on top of any hdcp encrypted HDMI passthrough signal. Showing incoming Skype calls, show status information, add "Red Button" interactions on top of the movies. Similar to Chumby netv does, it rips hdmi keys, decode opaque target rectangle coordinate, replace pixels, restores hdmi keys and send composited image forward. Or interface seen on tv screen is instantly switched from dvr input signal to xbox signal and back again.

Possible and likely? I don't know how complete cec specification is does it allow any dvr box command or custom ones. Microsoft and dvr manufacturer could create a Kinect-compatible consumer product logo.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

What exactly are the DVR capabilities?

I heard that MS is kind of dropping support or not doing much more development on WMC in Windows 8.

These days, people use the smart phones to make calls. Siri and Google Now handle the voice commands.

WMC hasn't had active development since somewhere around 2008, I believe. And it's still one of the best computer based DVR solutions. Not as flexible as some 3rd party packages, but it's complete, robust, easy to setup, and easy to use.

The only thing that has changed is that it is no longer included by default with Windows.

Regards,
SB

 

[expletive]

WMC hasn't had active development since somewhere around 2008, I believe. And it's still one of the best computer based DVR solutions. Not as flexible as some 3rd party packages, but it's complete, robust, easy to setup, and easy to use.

The only thing that has changed is that it is no longer included by default with Windows.

Regards,
SB

I have a dedicated WMC computer in a closet with a Cablecard and use it stream live TV to 4 Xbox 360s all over the house. As you said, it still has features and an intuitive interface that most still don't come close to.

It is on life support but MS hasn't killed it yet. The reason its no longer bundled with Windows is because MS still has to pay for a license for the MPEG codec when they sell WMC so they made it a la carte. This way they don't have to pay a surcharge against the millions of windows licenses they sell vs the minuscule # of people who actually use WMC.

To MBDF's point, the HDMI in will keep people tuned in to the new Xbox "input" if they can hook their regular cable box through it and just overlay stuff on top of it. I believe part of the strategy here is to allow people to slowly reduce their reliance on their cable box until one day they realize they don't need it because the Xbox has been providing all their entertainment. Then instead of replacing it or learning some new interface, they simply unplug the HDMI from the back of the Xbox and they're done. This is probably the same strategy Google had with their pass-through GoogleTV boxes.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The reason its no longer bundled with Windows is because MS still has to pay for a license for the MPEG encoder when they sell WMC so they made it a la carte.

Yup it's also why it wasn't included with all versions of Vista. And you had to buy a special version of Windows XP (Windows XP Media Center edition) in order to get it.

Windows 7 they decided to include it on all versions of Windows except server and enterprise.

But with Windows 8, the need for MPEG and MPEG 2 decoding is less significant. Online streaming and BluRay replacing DVD.

Regards,
SB

 

[dagamer]

Yup it's also why it wasn't included with all versions of Vista. And you had to buy a special version of Windows XP (Windows XP Media Center edition) in order to get it.

Windows 7 they decided to include it on all versions of Windows except server and enterprise.

But with Windows 8, the need for MPEG and MPEG 2 decoding is less significant. Online streaming and BluRay replacing DVD.

Regards,
SB

I wish MPEG2 would die a swift death. I still don't understand why we are using a 20-year old codec for broadcasts. Seriously?

 

[french toast]

I wish MPEG2 would die a swift death. I still don't understand why we are using a 20-year old codec for broadcasts. Seriously?

There was some talk of microsoft making a set top box replacement. .. I know we hav discussed the dvr functionality. .but I mean actual csble companies using an xbox instead of a tivo box!...

What if the other sku is a smaller redesigned 360...with some dvr functionality? $130 price point to take the low end and used in home tv cable box replacements...seems like a market microsoft is gunning for...I would much rather have an updated 360 than a tivo box thas for sure

The full durango could come in at $350...that would put sony under immense financial pressure.

 

[-tkf-]

I wish MPEG2 would die a swift death. I still don't understand why we are using a 20-year old codec for broadcasts. Seriously?

Seriously? because it's a standard, and a great one as well, it made alot of things easy and it was somewhat light weight to work with, and still is. From 25 mbit DV over XDCAM to 440 mbit HDCAM SR we should be mentioning MPEG2 in our nightly prayers with and without long gop, thank you MPEG2 for providing us with a solid undisputed standard for such a long time.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And at least mpeg2 plays and records on everything, unlike h.264 that has crazy playback issues...

 

[wco81]

Probably local broadcast stations would be reluctant to upgrade every time a new code comes out.

They spent big on the digital TV transition.

 

[MikeR]

Random blurp...

I wouldn't count on any major hardware alterations "if" the Xbox next system is Jaguar centric. There's only so much custom-customization one can do within a 25 watt vanilla-envelope, without exceeding TDP and cost. Adding random chips on improving certain compute functions isn't an option either... defeats the purpose of competitive pricing and quicker turnaround times on smaller future designs.

If there was a "secret sauce" (hate that phrase), I wouldn't bet it around the current leaked specs/designs. I Bet MS has B/C in the cards though - don't you think? "IF" B/C is available at the hardware level, then I can see their hardware not being Jaguar centric. AMD GPU yes, the rest not so much. My two cents...

 

[Arwin]

I like what you did there. I also keep thinking something similar each time I look at the Durango architecture. But I'm still inclined to believe in an APU and if both companies believe in streaming future, then an x86 base would really help getting stuff on those servers.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Random blurp...

I wouldn't count on any major hardware alterations "if" the Xbox next system is Jaguar centric. There's only so much custom-customization one can do within a 25 watt vanilla-envelope, without exceeding TDP and cost. Adding random chips on improving certain compute functions isn't an option either... defeats the purpose of competitive pricing and quicker turnaround times on smaller future designs.

If there was a "secret sauce" (hate that phrase), I wouldn't bet it around the current leaked specs/designs. I Bet MS has B/C in the cards though - don't you think? "IF" B/C is available at the hardware level, then I can see their hardware not being Jaguar centric. AMD GPU yes, the rest not so much. My two cents...

Hmm, if MS does go with an IBM CPU as opposed to Jaguar then I don't fancy their chances on the CPU performance front compared with Orbis.

 

[Albofighter]

IBM is doing some kind of stacking and charlie has hinted the relation to durango, take that as you will. I expect something new compared to vgleaks specs. Gotta wait til April at the latest.

 

[kots]

Hmm, if MS does go with an IBM CPU as opposed to Jaguar then I don't fancy their chances on the CPU performance front compared with Orbis.

You don't like an IBM solution ? It would absolutely stomp the Jaguar ...

 

[Xenus]

I'm not sure IBM has anything in the same powerenvelope that would stomp Jaguar and if they are going larger envelopeI hope it's a hell of a lot more effiecient then last gen. Otherwise while the therorecticals may smash Jaguar realworld performance could be even or even below it.

 

[MikeR]

IBM is doing some kind of stacking and charlie has hinted the relation to durango, take that as you will. I expect something new compared to vgleaks specs. Gotta wait til April at the latest.

Most likely a MCM design similar to Wii U Espresso, maybe a smaller silicon package, but beefier innards.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You don't like an IBM solution ? It would absolutely stomp the Jaguar ...

Based on...? Wii U's CPU is an IBM solution. Does that stomp Jaguar? The manufacturer of a component really doesn't mean much on its own. You need size, architecture, clocks, and power draw, to determine if one CPU is better than another.

 

[Cyan]

Hmm, if MS does go with an IBM CPU as opposed to Jaguar then I don't fancy their chances on the CPU performance front compared with Orbis.

Well, there are a lot of people from IBM working on Durango. Maybe, just maybe, MikeR is right.

It's quite odd that in the VGLeaks documents showing the specs, which I suppose are kinda correct, they never mention Jaguar but just a 1.6GHz CPU.

Andy Maki, Senior Mixed Signal Design Engineer at Microsoft, ex IBM
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andy-maki/37/a08/5b8
June 2012 – Present, work on cool stuff

Rob Shearer, Principal SOC Architect at Microsoft, ex IBM BlueGene/A2/Xbox360
www.linkedin.com/in/robshearer/
Microsoft: SOC Architecture in the Interactive Entertainment Business division.
May 2012 – Present, SoC Architecture for amazing new products that I can't tell you about.


Steve Faas, Silicon Design Manager at Microsoft , ex IBM
www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-faas/20/101/749/
July 2012 – Present ,Silicon Design Manager

Ilan Spillinger, Corporate VP IEB Hardware , ex VP Advanced Processor IBM
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ilan-spillinger/7/a43/1b3
2011 – Present ,Corporate VP IEB Hardware

Yaron Galitzky, Sr Director, XBOX Kinect at Microsoft, ex Sr. R/D IBM
www.linkedin.com/in/yarongalitzky/
Jan 2010 - Present, Sr Director, XBOX Kinect

Adam Muff, Senior Hardware Engineer at Microsoft, ex IBM FP A2
Technical team lead for the Reservation Station, an out of order issue and dependency unit in a high performance embedded microprocessor. Significantly contributed to the overall architecture and implementation of a 2+ GHz multi-threaded super-scalar microprocessor.
www.linkedin.com/pub/adam-muff/7/474/90b/
June 2012 – Present ,Senior Hardware Engineer

Gene Leung, Senior Design Engineer, Ex IBM
Led multiple teams through ASIC/semi-custom timing methodology development and closure on large designs. Have closed timing on several designs that utilize high-speed serial and DDR interfaces
www.linkedin.com/pub/gene-leung/6/183/2ab/
June 2012 – Present
Previous IBM : timing lead for X86 scalability - Hardware emualtion - gameconsole GPU

Boris Bobrov, Director of Silicon Development, ex Freescale Direcotor of App. Engineerng Freescale (IBM related)
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/boris-bobrov/4/737/437
February 2010 – Present ,silicon design, hardware engineering ,Director of Silicon Development

Matthew Tubbs, Senior Hardware Design Engineer at Microsoft ,ex IBM A2,
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-tubbs/9/2b2/815
May 2012 – Present, Senior Hardware Design Engineer

Edit: Forgot to add this guy

Ex IBM, ex A2, Ex Bluegene, the one behind Xbox 360
now becoming Microsoft Sr Director of SOC and pricipal Architect XBOX, Eric Mejdrich
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-mejdrich/1b/108/214