It's the pass-through that's the issue. Playing content shouldn't be a problem as the console can switch to 50Hz (although can it?).
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loekf
Regular
Was to be expected. Microsoft is not a TV company. So their GUI is fixed at 1080p60. Should be 1080p50 for PAL countries. Unfortunately we still have this legacy stuff.
During game play full screen there is no issue, but in UI or snap modes you are stuck at 50Hz in PAL countries.
I also cant stand judder and frame drops. Just wondering what happening to interlaced sources on HDMI in ? Just line doubling, bob & weave or something better ?
But games run at 60 fps/30fps, and if they were to limit PAL consoles to 50Hz, we'd get a stupidly inferior game experience. Also all video content on the web is 30/60 Hz. What we really need is for PAL to be dropped. It's nothing but a useless pain in the arse. PS3's UI is 60 Hz and it only drops to 50 Hz for DVDs. Playback of PAL media is juddery I believe. I'll check later.
You could make games run in 50 fps if you would like to. 50 fps is not the same as PAL and it is a perfectly valid frame rate. Of course it would be better if we could have even more steps (24, 25, 30, 40, 50 60) to perfectly view all legacy content and have more frame rate options for developers.
Some Blu-rays are 50i (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2549/wgloafdeath_uk.html), how does XBO handle those?
Some Blu-rays are 50i (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2549/wgloafdeath_uk.html), how does XBO handle those?
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loekf
Regular
Don't see PAL going anywhere soon... if you check out the maps ... 50 Hz is used in let's say 3/4 of the world.
Microsoft engineers should have thought this more through or just removed HDMI in from countries outside the US. Unless they get deals with all the cable companies and broadcasters (here in Holland schedules are copyrighted), it's a but useless feature.
I have an AVR and a Logitech Harmony. I can live with Kinnect controlling just the XB1.
As long as the output is at that framerate and the display syncs, it would be good. Devs could go with midrange framerates for smoother than 30fps, less performance than 60 fps. That's not standard behaviour though and so can't really be used. I doubt devs want to deal with 50 Hz versions as well as 60 Hz any more. And if they did, PAL players would probably get a worse experience (although in games that tear at 60 fps, 50 fps might provide a stable, cleaner experience).
In the Olden Days, 50 Hz gave a higher resolution for its lower framerate, so it was a trade off. Now it's just slower and gets in the way of media compatibility.
In the parts of the world where these consoles are selling (NA + USA + affluent RoW), PAL is a dinosaur. All our devices are perfectly capable of handling 60 Hz content. They also produce content that is exported to NTSC territories, and import content from NTSC territories. It's ridiculous to perform framerate down/upsampling instead of just using the native higher framerate. Whoever was in charge of the digital switch-over screwed up and we'll be stuck with this mess for another few decades.
PAL is a useful umbrella reference for 50 fps CE gear dveloped due to a now redundant analogue broadcast system. You get PAL labels on discs even though they're not using the PAL system for that very reason.
No it is not. It is just idiotic and lazy. I thought we had higher standards here.
Rubbish. The Sony NEX 5N comes in PAL and NTSC flavours, described as PAL and NTSC. The only difference is the recording rate - it uses neither NTSC nor PAL encoding schemas. Everyone understands what is being talked about with the use of PAL in this context, just as they understand that gigabytes = 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes without needing to clarify it as gibibytes. Consoles are sold as PAL boxes despite not outputting PAL signals (there's no such thing in the HDMI spec).
Unless you can specify a technical issue with the use of the term PAL when discussing 50 Hz content causing confusion, you're being unnecessarily pedantic (coming from me of all people!). It's how the CE industry distinguishes between territories having 50 Hz and 60 Hz content based on legacy broadcasting standards.
loekf
Regular
What's your point ? Standard and HD formats in the US settled at 60i and 60p, due to good old NTSC, while in Europe its 50i and 50p. 720p60 is a strange one, but nobody in Europe is broadcasting in 720p60 anymore (1080i50 is the norm).
XB1 seems to switch to 24 fps when playing BD and 60 fps snapped. The dashboard is shown at 60 fps. i wouldn't be surprised if material from HDMI is always touched, so interlaced material is deinterlaced (cheap ass method ?). People are also complaining about black levels. Maybe its CCIR601 vs 709 ?
Not forgetting power supply phase frequency.
On my Nex3 it says STT-C 50i on the camera. And what does "encoding schema" mean in this context?
I think you say it best yourself there. Also, since PAL and NTSC have lots of other differences (like color encoding) that does not exist with HDMI it is best to avoid it. It does not hurt to write 50 hz compared to writing NTSC or PAL. And just because CE companies are lazy and like to confuse people does not mean we should do it here.
(I would like everyone to write 1080X60i or 720X50p to be really specific about the signal, but I guess that is just a dream I have.)
What has that to do with HDMI signals?
Just the general PAL\NTSC\SECAM chatter, as those older standards were also bound around PPF.
Maybe you're just reading things wrong? I don't see anywhere in this conversation where people were using PAL to talk about resolutions and framerates outside of content. I've only used PAL to talk about the CE classification (PAL consoles and devices with 50 Hz output), and content (DVDs and TV broadcasts at 50 Hz), and have used 50 Hz/50 FPS to talk about framerates to avoid such issues. eg 50 Hz as a refresh option on games.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
What I got out of all this.
Europe still uses 50 hz for broadcast and media? Why? That is just so bizarre.
Regards,
SB
Europe still uses 50 hz for broadcast and media? Why? That is just so bizarre.
Regards,
SB
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