News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

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The inherent flaw would still be that you'd be re-compressing an already lossy signal with a lossy codec again.

If it's the same codec you will lose very little, if any, quality. Lossy codecs all deploy a signal transform, a quantization step and a symbol encoding phase.

The signal transform is completely reversible without loss of data (implementation permitting), the quantization step removes data beneath a threshold, once removed, re-quantization won't remove more data. Since the output of the quantization step of the re-encoded data should be equal to the output of the original quantization, symbol encoding should yield the same stream of symbols.

In reality, there'll be variations in rounding errors in both transform and quantization step from implementation to implementation, but they should be less than ½ LSB (ie. irrelevant).

Cheers
 
Destructoid video


Felt like grabbing a drink after watching that :smile:
LOL. Cool, thanks for sharing.

Certain details in the video surprised me.

I think it's a stretch, if the future is with APPS then there is nothing special about the XB1, the future proof should be the HDMI IN and the Kinect 2.0. Which right now looks shaky. Apple, Google, Sony, Samsung etc can all compete on APP functionality.

Imho the best Microsoft could do is get STB backing from content providers/cable services etc, and hook those STB boxes up directly with a USB cable.
I think that they really need to smooth out the rough edges.

Whether this feature is a diamond in the rough that has to be cut and smoothed out before it is a beautiful gem it has to be seen.

For now all you can do is *peculiar* things like this:

 
As a radiologist who relies on voice recognition daily for my livelihood, speaking directly into a microphone in a quiet room, on a high powered multicore Intel workstation, using the latest powerscribe 360 (undisputed leaders in voice recognition), with a custom tailored and intensively trained vocabulary list, I can say...

You guys are expecting too much from X1 speech recognition. The very best we are capable of in ideal conditions with anything less than a supercomputer isn't up to your standards. I'm constantly retraining words, editing correction and substitution lists, tweaking my compiled profile... And you expect a budget minded console with ambient noise sitting on your couch to do better?

From the examples I've seen so far, what kinect2 on the X1 achieves is brilliant.
 
As a radiologist who relies on voice recognition daily for my livelihood, speaking directly into a microphone in a quiet room, on a high powered multicore Intel workstation, using the latest powerscribe 360 (undisputed leaders in voice recognition), with a custom tailored and intensively trained vocabulary list, I can say...

You guys are expecting too much from X1 speech recognition. The very best we are capable of in ideal conditions with anything less than a supercomputer isn't up to your standards. I'm constantly retraining words, editing correction and substitution lists, tweaking my compiled profile... And you expect a budget minded console with ambient noise sitting on your couch to do better?

From the examples I've seen so far, what kinect2 on the X1 achieves is brilliant.

I think Anand sums it up quiet nicely..

I feel like we’re heading in the right direction as far as voice recognition goes, but we’re not quite there yet.
And i feel like i have read and heard that line over and over for the past many many years :)
 
Re: powering devices... Most TV's support discrete On/Off signals, even though they're not on the factory remote. Are we sure that the XBox doesn't -try- to use them, but falls back to power toggle when no discrete command exists?

Only Kotaku has complained about this. Maybe their components are different?


If the X1 currently only supports toggle, it seems not too hard (and a huge benefit) to add support for discrete down the line.
 
Rather funny video, though I think it highlights some of the problems associated with voice-controls. See, if you have a remote, you have some sort of tactical feedback or an instant response that makes you aware that the buttonyou have pressed has registered and will be executed. With voice-command, it's not quite as easy. How do you give that sort of tactical feedback, especially if the commands are not limited to one word commands, but can potentially range to more complex phrases and commands?

At some point, there is always going to be some latency involved - because the machine has to explore the possibility that while you're still talking, the command might not be complete yet. Sure, it's probably like a search engine - once the mechanism knows you're in the process of issueing a command, the more you say and the more is matched, the more you are singling out the one command that you are likely trying to trigger. That lack of tactical feedback however is one of the reasons why I don't see voice-commands being very ergonomic. Especially given that the mechanism has to differentiate if you're talking to yourself (some people do that), talking to other people, or issueing commands.

Sure, if you have to state "xbox" at the beginning of every phrase or every command, the context is somewhat clear - but it also can become tiresome. At least, I found that video tiresome hearing him repeat "xbox" all the time and it would feel as if you're talking to a dog that isn't quite adept in the commands you are trying to give. Also the more error prone the system is, the more you are inclined as a user, to turn up some kind of "kinect voice" that may not fit well in the vision of controlling your livingroom of the future.

Having said that, I wonder if they ever gave much thought of implementing an on screen display when ever you're issuing a command - something that pops up like an assistant. I.e. when you start issuing a command "Xbox go to ..." that it pops up with that and also gives you a short glance of what could be followed to complete the command, similar to the dynamic auto-complete mechanic most search-engines or wikipedia has. At least this would give you the tactical feedback of knowing while you speak that your Xbox is listening and you have some sense of which commands were understood correctly.

On the other hand, since you need space to show this information and it might not be exactly practical to show this pop up at all times (for instance while playing a game), I again wonder if voice-recognition is the best path into the future or if it just isn't a bit too clumsy/error prone/complex for every day use?
 
Nice to see all the reviews. Scores are about what I expected. Kinect voice looks ok, but like everything else can always need more improvement. Definitely not worse than Kinect for Xbox 360. Some of the negative nitpicking here & in the reviews are kind of surprising to me. New hardware, new software, there are going to be features that need to be added, existing stuff that needs improving. Just remember how the 360 was when it first launched. It took 8 years to get where it is. So to expect XB1 to just like 360 to the nth degree seems unrealistic to me. They basically had to start over from square one when they changed to x86 hardware. And on top of that they had to scrap the always on/DRM functionality at basically the eleventh hour. I'm willing to give some leniency & that with some time all the little quirks will get ironed out. I think the 8 year lifespan basically caused a lot of people to forget how rocky most console launches are. Anybody buying a new system at launch is guaranteed to come across issues. That's what you get for being on the bleeding edge. So to everybody out there that has one, thanks for beta testing the systems for me. When I finally get one hopefully next year all these little nitpicks should be a thing of the past. :)

Tommy McClain
 
As a radiologist who relies on voice recognition daily for my livelihood...You guys are expecting too much from X1 speech recognition.
That's not quite fair. The state of the art doesn't matter. People aren't interested in getting a feature that's among the best in class at a given price point. All they care about is that it works as they try to use it. If voice recognition is flaky enough to be annoying, it doesn't matter that K2 is, say, doubling the previous <$1000 solutions accuracy up to 65%. The only interest is 'does it work for me?' And there's actually a fair user concern here, I think, because it sounds as like the non-voice UI is a bit crap, what with moving locations for content. I haven't read up on that so may be underestimating it, but if the voice control doesn't work (because it's not a $10000 super computer) and the controller UI doesn't work (because it's a poor design), then the whole machine would be a frustration to use, and that's going to have a more negative impact on the platform than anything else - power, price, style, library.
 
Interesting how varied the reports on voice control are. I imagine some speakers are more naturally suited to voice command, where others are going to have to learn to speak the right way. Probably not exactly where MS wants it to be. Might be frustrating for some people.

UI looks pretty straightforward to me, but I guess I'll see what I think when I get my hands on it.
 
Some of the negative nitpicking here & in the reviews are kind of surprising to me. New hardware, new software, there are going to be features that need to be added, existing stuff that needs improving. Just remember how the 360 was when it first launched.
You can only review and have opinion on what's in front of you. No-one can rate XB1 a 10/10 now because in five years it'll have software and services making it a 10/10. the current reviews are the current state of play. These can be reconsidered as the platform progresses.
 
You can only review and have opinion on what's in front of you. No-one can rate XB1 a 10/10 now because in five years it'll have software and services making it a 10/10. the current reviews are the current state of play. These can be reconsidered as the platform progresses.

True. Never said it deserves a 10 or any kind of number for that matter. I did say they were what I expected. My issue is that some people had some really unrealistic expectations are knocking it/nitpicking it because it didn't live up to them. Seems a little unfair to me. But hey if that's your bag keep doing what you're doing.

Tommy McClain
 
You can only review and have opinion on what's in front of you. No-one can rate XB1 a 10/10 now because in five years it'll have software and services making it a 10/10. the current reviews are the current state of play. These can be reconsidered as the platform progresses.

It seems to me the reviews do take potential into account. Despite the long list of issues, the scores generally get a bonus point or two for what MS wants to do, but hasn't quiet yet.

I just read the Kutoku review, which was well written. Right now it sounds like a bit of a mess, inconsistent voice controls, inconsistent media controls, needlessly complex UI, poor performance with Snap. I don't even understand why Snap is a thing, when would you want it? The reviewer basically says it was more useful to just swap between tasks rather then try to figure out how and if they worked in Snap mode. All of this stuff can be patched.

The biggest issue for me would be the closing of your game without warning or saving if someone says the wrong thing or Kinect gets it wrong. I would be pissed.
 
Usually English voice recognition is far better than French or German voice system, first French reviews says voice control is at best average, and seeing such videos, I fear many users maybe pissed off...

User experience in non English countries will be a disaster as French, Germans, Italian, etc... have so many different accent. Don't you think so ?
And as xbox1 will be sold as a remote free media center manager in addition to gaming console, isn't it a bad move as first users will be somewhat burned by half working UI ?

Same feeling for kinect looking at my head leaning to change POV or launch in game moves ? How could the system/user be sure it should be triggered ?

Still waiting how mouth talk will turn !
 
Interesting how varied the reports on voice control are. I imagine some speakers are more naturally suited to voice command, where others are going to have to learn to speak the right way. Probably not exactly where MS wants it to be. Might be frustrating for some people.

UI looks pretty straightforward to me, but I guess I'll see what I think when I get my hands on it.

That is a really bad system then. Sorry but almost anybody is able to press a button and it is always the same result. If part of users have to change their speaking skills in order to get this input system working properly, it is a bad all-user interface.
 
That is a really bad system then. Sorry but almost anybody is able to press a button and it is always the same result. If part of users have to change their speaking skills in order to get this input system working properly, it is a bad all-user interface.

There is a controller that can do all of those things. For the people that voice control works for, they can use that as they like as well. I'd hope it works for the majority of people. We'll see. I'll have mine this week and I'll let everyone know how it works. I'm expecting it to have some degree of misses. I'll also update if I find I learn to use it better over time.
 
Usually English voice recognition is far better than French or German voice system, first French reviews says voice control is at best average, and seeing such videos, I fear many users maybe pissed off...

User experience in non English countries will be a disaster as French, Germans, Italian, etc... have so many different accent. Don't you think so ?
And as xbox1 will be sold as a remote free media center manager in addition to gaming console, isn't it a bad move as first users will be somewhat burned by half working UI ?

Same feeling for kinect looking at my head leaning to change POV or launch in game moves ? How could the system/user be sure it should be triggered ?

Still waiting how mouth talk will turn !
I think Italian is likely to work well with voice recognition?

With languages like Spanish for instance, which is *poor* at vowels -I mean, the a sounds like the a in tan, e sounds like the e in den, i sounds like the i in Bing, the o sounds like the o in love, the u sounds like the u in dumb- it should be easier.

In fact, this video is downright impressive. :oops:

The guy speaks Spanish and Kinect doesn't miss a single voice command during the entire video!!

At some point he is talking to a girl via Skype and he instantly hangs up right after saying something else to her. :smile2:


It also helps the fact that proper Spanish from Spain has a very neutral accent.
 
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