News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[-tkf-]

Not bad, a 7.8 is a tad higher than PS4's 7.7.

It's interesting how they actually rate the different aspects:

XBOX1
Design 6
Software 7
Game Selection 7
Controls 8
Performance 8
Heat/Noise 8

VS PS4
Design 8
Software 6
Game Selection 6
Controls 9
Performance 8
Heat Noise 8

Mod note: Can we not do PS4 vs XB1 comparison in this thread please. I'll keep tkf's scores just to show what the scores for XB1 mean in comparison to another platform, as otherwise they lack context. However, commentary should be about XB1 only, and talk about PS4 in its thread.

 

[TheD]

I disagree with Eurogamer's article on the price. Kinect is a new technology, then you have the 8GB of built-in flash memory, what looks like more solid materials in the design -I also find the box very elegant, aesthetically appealing even, quite flat in terms of design, but it looks sophisticated at the same time, like an Apple product-.

Just because Kinect comes with the console does not mean that people have to think it is worth the extra, I am not sure where you are getting 8GB of NAND from (I have not heard about it having that) it is not like it would cost much anyway and subjectively liking the design (of a big black box no less) does not make up for a higher cost for most people.

 

[Cyan]

Ugh, someone needs to bury that parasite.

I felt like this video was a chuckle from the grave. I thought this guy had slipped away unnoticed after the news of him being in prison broke.

I remember all the fuzz and watching a video of him playing CoD on the Xbox 360 and how he was the number 1 in the world at CoD.

Francis though is a different kettle of fish -heart breaking story-.

 

[SlimJim]

It's to the point where the Blu-ray drive actually seems to make more noise than the cooling system, which is good news for gamers (after the game has installed anyway), but perhaps not quite so good news for BD movie viewers, where the machine is louder than PlayStation 4. Perhaps the vast array of air vents on the Xbox One casing allows the noise from the internals to travel more easily.

I wasn't really expecting this. I thought the PS4 would be more quiet overall, not only in BD viewing. I guess it was a smart move to have an outside power brick, so smart engineering on that part at least.

Also in the pictures on The Verge and Polygon, the Xbox One looks really high end, which is nice as well.

 

[Cyan]

Just because Kinect comes with the console does not mean that people have to think it is worth the extra, I am not sure where you are getting 8GB of NAND from (I have not heard about it having that) it is not like it would cost much anyway and subjectively liking the design (of a big black box no less) does not make up for a higher cost for most people.

Yes, the console features 8GB of flash, which is probably meant for the OS not for streaming data for games. Still a nice inclusion.

The PS4 doesn't look bad to me -the vents at the back though don't look fancy in my opinion though- but the materials of the console remind me of an old laptop I had back in 2004, which in addition is reminiscent to me of the fact that I used to open the lid of my laptop and it feels as I am seeing that PC when watching the PS4's frontal.

The Xbox One gives off the impression of a solid, sober, sophisticated design, materials wise.

It's interesting how they actually rate the different aspects:

XBOX1
Design 6
Software 7
Game Selection 7
Controls 8
Performance 8
Heat/Noise 8

VS PS4
Design 8
Software 6
Game Selection 6
Controls 9
Performance 8
Heat Noise 8

Yup, by Controls I don't know if they mean the UI controls or the gamepad.

Mod edit: Can we not do PS4 vs XB1 comparison in this thread please. I'll keep tkf's scores just to show what the scores for XB1 mean in comparison to another platform, as otherwise they lack context. However, commentary should be about XB1 only, and talk about PS4 in its thread.

I wasn't really expecting this. I thought the PS4 would be more quiet overall, not only in BD viewing. I guess it was a smart move to have an outside power brick, so smart engineering on that part at least.

Also in the pictures on The Verge and Polygon, the Xbox One looks really high end, which is nice as well.

Yup, that got my attention, too -maybe the Blu-Ray unit?. Heat/Noise is a draw according to the Verge's review.

I have seen about everything for the PS4, very quiet machines and loud machines-. I have a feeling that the design of the Xbox One will help the console to pass the test of time when it comes to noise.

 

[Cyan]

Did this get posted already? Raw uncut X1 demo:


http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/11/19/xbox-one-uncut-demo

Hm, really not impressed by the voice command capabilities. I wonder if the X1 will 'learn' over time for a specific user and the experience gets improved...

Very interesting. I think that when he speeds up his voice the Kinect has a little more trouble recognising his voice. There are things that still need some work...

Loved the Snap TV feature, that was certainly a-mazing.

As I said before, the most exciting thing is how every console now tries to be different. :smile2:

 

[Brad Grenz]

Well it isn't easy to make it work, you have to take a compressed audio signal, uncompress, add the XB1 sound to the signal, re-compress in Dolby and send it on. It might be easier if the STB box was able to send a uncompressed signal instead of a compressed signal.

And there is the constant development of new codecs..
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...t_the_New_DTS-HD_Master_Audio71_Decoder/13126

It seems to me that the HDMI IN is turning out to be a really clumsy solution.

No kidding. It seems to have every drawback some of us predicted back in May. As long as the cable companies don't want to play ball the true convergence MS obviously intends will be out of reach. Unfortunately for Microsoft companies like Comcast and Dish Network don't want someone standing between them and their customers pasting their own ads on top of the TV signal. They'd rather upsell subscribers advanced whole-home DVRs like the X1 and the Hopper. They don't really have any incentive to work with MS.

 

[loekf]

Polygon's claims that HDMI-in darkens the image is also a bit worrying.

IR control is also flawed, since there's no way for the xbone to know if a devices was previously powered on or not.
According to kotaku, if a person was already watching TV and yells "XBox On" at kinnect, the xbone will turn off the TV.

The Kotaku review was spot-on, very thorough and unbiased.

I guess the HDMI-in takes the YUV out from the STB, converts it to RGB, then blends it with other layers. This must be doing something stupid there. E.g. my Onkyo AV reviewer also does an overlay on top of the incoming source, but the underlying video is untouched. What if you have your STB on outputting untouched video (1080i) and you intended to let your TV do the deinterlacing, the XB1 will do it all for you ? Which what quality ?

The IR control is just stupid. This means that people with an AV receiver and more than a XB1 + STB shouldn't care about the TV integration... stick to your Logitech Harmony and just use it to play games...

 

[Cyan]

The Kotaku review was spot-on, very thorough and unbiased.

I guess the HDMI-in takes the YUV out from the STB, converts it to RGB, then blends it with other layers. This must be doing something stupid there. E.g. my Onkyo AV reviewer also does an overlay on top of the incoming source, but the underlying video is untouched. What if you have your STB on outputting untouched video (1080i) and you intended to let your TV do the deinterlacing, the XB1 will do it all for you ? Which what quality ?

The IR control is just stupid. This means that people with an AV receiver and more than a XB1 + STB shouldn't care about the TV integration... stick to your Logitech Harmony and just use it to play games...

There is still a long way to go for the console before it does what it actually wants to do. Despite of quite liking the console, I agree with most of the criticism, especially after watching IGN's video on the interface which shows it still needs lots of work.

However... while I am mainly interested in the games right now, this extract from The Verge's review says what I mentioned about looking into the future.

When Microsoft says it's building a console for the next decade, it's not lying. Where the PlayStation 4 is designed to simply become an ever-better version of itself, the Xbox One is poised to turn into an entirely different, entirely unprecedented device.

It may not only supplement, but replace your cable box; it could have a rich, full app store; games are only going to get better, more impressive, and more interactive. The blueprints are all here. Virtually everything Microsoft is trying to do is smart, practical, and forward-thinking — even as they've undone some of the Xbox One's most future-proof innovation over the last few months, Marc Whitten and his team at Microsoft have clearly kept their heads in the future.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/20/5117320/microsoft-xbox-one-review

 

[-tkf-]

I guess it was a smart move to have an outside power brick, so smart engineering on that part at least.

I hate that brick, there is nothing smart engineering about that brick.

 

[-tkf-]

There is still a long way to go for the console before it does what it actually wants to do. Despite of quite liking the console, I agree with most of the criticism, especially after watching IGN's video on the interface which shows it still needs lots of work.

However... while I am mainly interested in the games right now, this extract from The Verge's review says what I mentioned about looking into the future.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/20/5117320/microsoft-xbox-one-review

I think it's a stretch, if the future is with APPS then there is nothing special about the XB1, the future proof should be the HDMI IN and the Kinect 2.0. Which right now looks shaky. Apple, Google, Sony, Samsung etc can all compete on APP functionality.

Imho the best Microsoft could do is get STB backing from content providers/cable services etc, and hook those STB boxes up directly with a USB cable.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I think it's a stretch, if the future is with APPS then there is nothing special about the XB1, the future proof should be the HDMI IN and the Kinect 2.0. Which right now looks shaky. Apple, Google, Sony, Samsung etc can all compete on APP functionality.

Imho the best Microsoft could do is get STB backing from content providers/cable services etc, and hook those STB boxes up directly with a USB cable.

Maybe they could work with TiVo at least? Unless there is some bad patent lawsuit blood I'm not remembering right now.

But the future is definitely in over the top IPTV services, if anything, and Microsoft is no better positioned for that than anyone. Sony might even have an advantage given the rumored deals they have made with some of the big cable networks, and the introduction of VitaTV which can act as a cheap IPTV terminal for every screen in the house.

 

[Phil]

Well it isn't easy to make it work, you have to take a compressed audio signal, uncompress, add the XB1 sound to the signal, re-compress in Dolby and send it on. It might be easier if the STB box was able to send a uncompressed signal instead of a compressed signal.

And there is the constant development of new codecs..
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...t_the_New_DTS-HD_Master_Audio71_Decoder/13126

It seems to me that the HDMI IN is turning out to be a really clumsy solution.

Ouch. I was actually wondering about that. IMO it would be just easier to decompress your compressed signal, add the Xbox's sound overlay and compress it to whatever you have configured in your Xbox's setup. I.e. DTS or DTS-HD (assuming your AVR can handle it).

At this point though, we're not really talking about anyone with a decent AVR and a bit of an audiophile who likes to have their signals untouched and certainly not re-encoded multiple times with a lossy codec. Then again, how audiophile are the signals that come from your sat-box in the first place? Not very, but what if that device you're connecting is not a TV sat box but rather a mediabox with hi-def content? Epic fail.

And the IR stuff not working (like the power button being a toggle switch, so if it's already turned on, the Xbox will turn it off because it assumes it was off), isn't a surprise to me. That's why in all these super "intelligent" remote controlls, I tend to avoid any functions that attempt to control multiple devices at the same time. With is being a bi-directional signal, these things are just too error prone.

 

[Billy Idol]

Very interesting. I think that when he speeds up his voice the Kinect has a little more trouble recognising his voice. There are things that still need some work...

Loved the Snap TV feature, that was certainly a-mazing.

As I said before, the most exciting thing is how every console now tries to be different. :smile2:

Yeah...probably?!?
It is interesting as Richard mentioned in his DF article that it works 90% of the time.

I wonder how commands in other languages (German) will work...and if it is possible to switch OS language to english??

 

[loekf]

I hate that brick, there is nothing smart engineering about that brick.

Reminds of the Jobs movie, when that old engineer "dude" arrives on his motor cycle. Jobs takes him to the wooden box and just says "make it fit into that hole... period".

 

[loekf]

Ouch. I was actually wondering about that. IMO it would be just easier to decompress your compressed signal, add the Xbox's sound overlay and compress it to whatever you have configured in your Xbox's setup. I.e. DTS or DTS-HD (assuming your AVR can handle it).

At this point though, we're not really talking about anyone with a decent AVR and a bit of an audiophile who likes to have their signals untouched and certainly not re-encoded multiple times with a lossy codec. Then again, how audiophile are the signals that come from your sat-box in the first place? Not very, but what if that device you're connecting is not a TV sat box but rather a mediabox with hi-def content? Epic fail.

And the IR stuff not working (like the power button being a toggle switch, so if it's already turned on, the Xbox will turn it off because it assumes it was off), isn't a surprise to me. That's why in all these super "intelligent" remote controlls, I tend to avoid any functions that attempt to control multiple devices at the same time. With is being a bi-directional signal, these things are just too error prone.

So you're watching a movie from your STB with DD 5.1. Suppose the XB1 keeps DD 5.1, but wants to blend it other sources, like bleeps for the UI or a game (if you snapped the video window). Can you even mix a stereo sound with a DD 5.1 stream untouched ? Maye you can just put the other sources in the front speaker or in left / right.

BTW... a Harmony remote has activities. XB1 doesn't know about them. Harmony remembers when you power-on what is on and what is off and goes from there when you switch activities and powers on/off other components in your setup.

 

[-tkf-]

Ouch. I was actually wondering about that. IMO it would be just easier to decompress your compressed signal, add the Xbox's sound overlay and compress it to whatever you have configured in your Xbox's setup. I.e. DTS or DTS-HD (assuming your AVR can handle it).

At this point though, we're not really talking about anyone with a decent AVR and a bit of an audiophile who likes to have their signals untouched and certainly not re-encoded multiple times with a lossy codec. Then again, how audiophile are the signals that come from your sat-box in the first place? Not very, but what if that device you're connecting is not a TV sat box but rather a mediabox with hi-def content? Epic fail.

And the IR stuff not working (like the power button being a toggle switch, so if it's already turned on, the Xbox will turn it off because it assumes it was off), isn't a surprise to me. That's why in all these super "intelligent" remote controlls, I tend to avoid any functions that attempt to control multiple devices at the same time. With is being a bi-directional signal, these things are just too error prone.

I would suggest they Decompress every codec, add the XBOX sound and send it off as uncompressed, that would be the best and least compromising way to handle it. If the AVR can handle it, which i would expect most could. It seems they really didn't think this to the end, or more likely, didn't see it as a problem for whatever simple TV boxes that was the original basis.

 

[Cyan]

More reviews:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-review/


http://www.wired.com/reviews/2013/11/xbox-review/

 

[Brad Grenz]

I would suggest they Decompress every codec, add the XBOX sound and send it off as uncompressed, that would be the best and least compromising way to handle it. If the AVR can handle it, which i would expect most could. It seems they really didn't think this to the end, or more likely, didn't see it as a problem for whatever simple TV boxes that was the original basis.

I believe that is what the current "beta" solution does, sending it out as LPCM over HDMI or encoded into DTS for optical. Reportedly it is still unreliable for some. But the automatic volume management sounds like a big issue for snapped apps.

 

[Phil]

So you're watching a movie from your STB with DD 5.1. Suppose the XB1 keeps DD 5.1, but wants to blend it other sources, like bleeps for the UI or a game (if you snapped the video window). Can you even mix a stereo sound with a DD 5.1 stream untouched ? Maye you can just put the other sources in the front speaker or in left / right.

Yes, that's how I would imagine it. When you decompress a surround codec, you'll end up with a PCM signal for every channel. Add the signals to the channels you want and wrap it back into any codec you please (or leave it as is, as -tkf- suggested above).

The inherent flaw would still be that you'd be re-compressing an already lossy signal with a lossy codec again. Unless of course you leave it as a PCM signal or use a codec that supports loseless compression like DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD. It's certainly not a solution I would want, but then, I am not exactly your average user - but it's probably the only reasonable thing they can do to somewhat minimize the problem.