News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Shifty Geezer]

Take the current xbox 360 as example from 76 million units only 46 million have a live account either silver or gold,that clearly shows that 30 million xbox 360 never went online and created an account is a big number.

We cover the same ground over and over, but, though 30 million haven't yet created an online account, that doesn't mean those same 30 million wouldn't buy the console if they had to create an account. if they had to create an account on XB360, you might find only 2 million avoid the console as a result and the rest sign up. There is no correlation that can be drawn between how many people haven't connected their console online and how many would refuse to buy a console if it is always-on.

 

[Gubbi]

Online only console will have a bigger impact i think than no second hand games,despite what many people think not every one has internet connection.

There is 78% internet penetration in the U.S. Higher in western Europe and developed asian countries, around 60-75% in the rest of the E.U.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of those not having an internet connection are senior citizens, who aren't the primary demographics wrt. console sales.

The motivation for an always online console is clear: An increased fraction of revenue will come from online services and online app purchases (games and otherwise).

Cheers

 

[Averagejoe]

We cover the same ground over and over, but, though 30 million haven't yet created an online account, that doesn't mean those same 30 million wouldn't buy the console if they had to create an account. if they had to create an account on XB360, you might find only 2 million avoid the console as a result and the rest sign up. There is no correlation that can be drawn between how many people haven't connected their console online and how many would refuse to buy a console if it is always-on.

Well that is true.

But is a big gamble i think.

 

[Averagejoe]

There is 78% internet penetration in the U.S. Higher in western Europe and developed asian countries, around 60-75% in the rest of the E.U.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of those not having an internet connection are senior citizens, who aren't the primary demographics wrt. console sales.

The motivation for an always online console is clear: An increased fraction of revenue will come from online services and online app purchases (games and otherwise).

Cheers

That is true but i just gave a good example 30 million 360 owners never went online with their xbox 360 that is a huge percentage.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Kinect will be built into the box im assuming. ..microsoft teased this a few years ago.

It can't be. The microphones would be rendered useless by fans and drives.

 

[mrcorbo]

That is true but i just gave a good example 30 million 360 owners never went online with their xbox 360 that is a huge percentage.

"Do not" doesn't equal "would not" or "can not".

 

[XpiderMX]

We cover the same ground over and over, but, though 30 million haven't yet created an online account, that doesn't mean those same 30 million wouldn't buy the console if they had to create an account. if they had to create an account on XB360, you might find only 2 million avoid the console as a result and the rest sign up. There is no correlation that can be drawn between how many people haven't connected their console online and how many would refuse to buy a console if it is always-on.

I wonder what percentage is due to piracy...

 

[RobertR1]

The future is clearly transitioning to a CONNECTED model.

The stats you'd want to see are, which percentage of consoles sold each year are online. I bet that number goes up each year. I'm willing to bet that the percentage of 360's sold in 2012 that were online is much greater than the number of 360's sold in 2006. Internally for MS, that trend is clear as day.

PC gaming has gone up in the last few years and that's based on a connected model. Clearly no impact there.

The whole losing customer because the console has to be connected is not a valid long term concern.

 

[expletive]

We cover the same ground over and over, but, though 30 million haven't yet created an online account, that doesn't mean those same 30 million wouldn't buy the console if they had to create an account. if they had to create an account on XB360, you might find only 2 million avoid the console as a result and the rest sign up. There is no correlation that can be drawn between how many people haven't connected their console online and how many would refuse to buy a console if it is always-on.

I am going in the opposite direction of "built in" wrt Kinect hardware...

The new Kinect module is wireless using the "new wireless technology" and has an AC adapter, rather than being built into the front face of the box. If there is some level of 'mandatory' with Kinect 2.0 then its placement options need to be more flexible, not less.

 

[bkilian]

It can't be. The microphones would be rendered useless by fans and drives.

Believe it or not, the Kinect _currently_ has a fan built in. Making it the _only_ open mic device in the world with an attached fan. Absolute genius, I tell you.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Believe it or not, the Kinect _currently_ has a fan built in. Making it the _only_ open mic device in the world with an attached fan. Absolute genius, I tell you.

Are you suggesting a case mounted kinect would be possible and able to deal with case noise and vibration?

 

[XpiderMX]

Believe it or not, the Kinect _currently_ has a fan built in. Making it the _only_ open mic device in the world with an attached fan. Absolute genius, I tell you.

I guess it would work better without a fan. Is there any possibility a simpler case (less heat) and most circuitry in the console?

 

[Scott_Arm]

I am going in the opposite direction of "built in" wrt Kinect hardware...

The new Kinect module is wireless using the "new wireless technology" and has an AC adapter, rather than being built into the front face of the box. If there is some level of 'mandatory' with Kinect 2.0 then its placement options need to be more flexible, not less.

That's actually an interesting idea that no one has mentioned. I don't know what kind of data rate you'd need for the thing, and what types of tech are out there for fast and low-latency wireless. That said, it would obviously be the best solution, if it's affordable.

 

[RobertR1]

That's actually an interesting idea that no one has mentioned. I don't know what kind of data rate you'd need for the thing, and what types of tech are out there for fast and low-latency wireless. That said, it would obviously be the best solution, if it's affordable.

Wireless AC standard.

 

[XpiderMX]

That's actually an interesting idea that no one has mentioned. I don't know what kind of data rate you'd need for the thing, and what types of tech are out there for fast and low-latency wireless. That said, it would obviously be the best solution, if it's affordable.

A patent for Kinect 2 implies wireless (or ethernet, or USB connection).

[0041] Capture device (20) is in communication with console computing system (12) via a communication link (436). The communication link (436) may be a wired connection including, for example, a USB connection, a Firewire connection, an Ethernet cable connection, or the like and/or a wireless connection such as a wireless 802.11b, g, a, or n connection.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Wireless AC standard.

Ha ha ha. This one is supposed to be 1080p, but we don't know the framerate. Still, that's a huge jump in camera resolution. The depth resolution is an appreciable jump, while still fairly low. For 60fps, just supporting a 1080p raw video stream would be a lot of bandwidth. The only way that would be feasible is if they had video compression on the device. Even 30fps would be kind of crazy. Seems unlikely that they could cheaply come up with a way to provide both the wireless and encoding on the cheap.

Edit: is the RGB output from Kinect compressed? I'm guessing it has to be. Kinect was only 16 MB/s or something. Is real-time 1080p encoding cheap?

 

[expletive]

That's actually an interesting idea that no one has mentioned. I don't know what kind of data rate you'd need for the thing, and what types of tech are out there for fast and low-latency wireless. That said, it would obviously be the best solution, if it's affordable.

This could be the reason the old 360 controllers are rumored to be incompatible with Durango as they needed a new protocol to also accommodate the bandwidth and latency requirements of Kinect 2. (and too expensive to include both)

Ha ha ha. This one is supposed to be 1080p, but we don't know the framerate. Still, that's a huge jump in camera resolution. The depth resolution is an appreciable jump, while still fairly low. For 60fps, just supporting a 1080p raw video stream would be a lot of bandwidth. The only way that would be feasible is if they had video compression on the device. Even 30fps would be kind of crazy. Seems unlikely that they could cheaply come up with a way to provide both the wireless and encoding on the cheap.

FWIW, the 360 has been streaming 1080i video over a,n since its been available (media center). Maybe some of the custom hardware blocks that have codec functions are also used for the decompression on the console side. (WIth the requisite encoder being on the kinect itself.)

 

[bkilian]

Are you suggesting a case mounted kinect would be possible and able to deal with case noise and vibration?

Possible, yes. Wise? Hell no. The static tone remover in the current pipeline could deal with fan noise, but it's still not a smart thing to do.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is real-time 1080p encoding cheap?

Well it's consumer handheld camera device cheap. A quick eBay investigation for cheap Chinese devices actually has a new Samsung recorder for £40, and an in-car recorder with LCD screen that claims to be 1080p for £27. h.264 encoding of the signal should be cheap enough then, but quality will suffer with lower bitrates for a Wifi signal and that could hurt algorithms running on the feed. A smart solution would be higher bitrate/quality around the areas of interest (hands + face) and lower for the scenery and junk.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I wonder what percentage is due to piracy...

Impossible to say, but likely not insignificant. It'll be more prevalent in countries with a culture of piracy but will still exist to some degree in most Western countries.

I myself still know a couple people that never connect their X360 to the internet for fear the hacked firmware will be detected and their console becomes blacklisted.

Regards,
SB