News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Shifty Geezer]

If the text is accurate, then the value is greatly reduced, as there'll be contention to share content. You couldn't have two kids (own child and nephew, say) playing games from your library at the same time.

Without that detail, it's hard to ascertain the real benefit of the sharing and cost of its loss. I guess we'll find out from Dean Takahashi's next book.

 

[wco81]

Americans can't easily buy an app. which is not in the US app. store.

 

[blakjedi]

No you have got it wrong
Sony clearly have made a game console first...with some additional social/tv/internet features tacked on..where as microsoft made a tv/internet/casual gamer box first that just happens to play reasonably high end games.

Sony have got the most powerfull no nonsense/most easily for development console (if vg leaks are to be believed. .I think there right)..they have bundled no gimmicks to keep the price down, one operating system that allows devs to code as close to the metal as possible, got the easy accessible no internet requirements, no camera needed, free to do what the hell you like with the game disks..unlocked region free games...the smaller/2 way stacking console.. (lighter? Better looking? ), more innovative controller (even if as an avid 360 fan microsoft mak the best controllers).

Oh and sony whilst not offering any backwards compatibility right out of the gate, at least has the promise of full backwards compat within the year via gakai.

Microsoft also has a horrible reputation its picked up the last couple of years of writing out fake reviews or its products.
Sony cocked up and choked on their own ego with the ps3...somehow they pulled it back round...now microsoft seems to hage made the same mistake. #arrogance.

The fact xbox one got royally panned in the media and had to yeild to match what the ps4 was offering right from the start tells you who was on the right side of the hardcore gamer.
And thats why I will be buying a ps4 right out of the gate, the fact microsoft reversed its george orwell policies means I may get another xbox in te future.

Im sorry. I think the games I want to play will be available on XB1 too. I think that the XB1 will be powerful enough to make the games virtually indistinguishable on my TV.

I like the idea of cloud computing working with my console and look forward to what things developers dream up (like project spark).

I like the idea behind Kinect and though I wish the price were lower, I do not want an entertainment box without voice and motion controls as described will be avialable through Kinect. I do not beleive that there is such thing as a gaming only box anymore.

I want to have my entertainment co-located and avaiable on the fly with fast switching and have my games in the claoud so that the xbox one's location and media are immaterial.

If the implementation of these things don't work as well as advertised, then that will be a problem.

I think MS got all those things right.

All the other things in your post, are either nonsense (ie opinion) or noise. All you have told me is that I dont fit into Sony's plans this generation. i would actually consider myself a much more hardcore gamer than most people because I go where the experiences are - not where the brand is. I have owned nearly all consoles since 1992 except for the PS2. I'm "harder" than most console gamers but PS4 is not "that" hardcore a system. Its just limited to mostly gaming.

And thats fine too *shrug*

 

[rockaman]

I think MS did say in their press release or something else that the Xbox One would be region free, but I have to check on that.

 

[function]

If the text is accurate, then the value is greatly reduced, as there'll be contention to share content. You couldn't have two kids (own child and nephew, say) playing games from your library at the same time.

So you sit down to play a game you've "borrowed" digitally and find out you can't play that evening because one of your friend's nine (only 9 mind you) other friends was borrowing a game that evening.

What kind of school kid or teenager or college student isn't going to have at least two of their friends wanting to access one of their games on many evenings and weekends? "Hey guiz I got cool new game X fight amongst yourselves for occasional access to it in dribs and drabs but watch out for Henry he'll leave his Xbonx on paused 24/7 till he's finished it hahaha."

First come, only one served. That's a horrible method of contention management.

Absolute rubbish. 2/10. Try harder MS.

 

[dagamer]

Anyone also notice that the price of the console was never on a slide at their E3 press conference? That seems pretty weird right? They wouldn't want it to leak out, I guess? I bring it up because its almost as if they were unsure if they wanted to announce the price now or later.

Regardless, I hope the result of this colossal screw up humbles them in this generation. They are really going to fight hard to make their customers happy, otherwise, people will simply buy the cheaper PS4. I sincerely hope with the bubble popped, they take a good honest look at themselves because Sony is firing on all cylinders.

 

[patsu]

Americans can't easily buy an app. which is not in the US app. store.

You have to change your billing info in your iTunes account to match the region in order to buy (and download) the apps in that region. But the purchased apps will be usable on any iOS device.

In addition, you should be able to transfer them from iTunes app directly (say if your foreign friends copy them to your Mac).

I think MS did say in their press release or something else that the Xbox One would be region free, but I have to check on that.

Yes, I think so.

 

[dobwal]

:-O

Which Apple DRM are you talking about ?

On iOS, there is no concept of physical media. You can share all purchases on multiple devices. My phone has apps from multiple people and I can still use their apps after they left. These apps are free or cheap to begin with. Shareware used to cost $10-$20 on PC/Mac. Commercial ware from $40-50 and up.

On Mac, the fruit company doesn't prevent used disc app sales. The Mac AppStore is there mostly for security and retail revenue. But you can buy direct fom any vendor. I bought Parallels from outside Apple's AppStore. I can transfer the license to my wife if I want to. That's dealing with Parallels directly. Apple didn't and still don't give a hoot.

Edit: Come to think of it, the Apple app ecosystem is not region coded too.

The one that has Intertrust suing Apple for not licensing the technology behind it.

All movies and TV shows are DRM laden.

Can I come to your home, hook up an iphone to your itunes and download whatever and as many apps as I want from your library, free and clear? I doubt it or something has changed. Is not jailbreaking still a necessary requirement for pirating iOS apps? Yes, you can have multiple people download their apps on your phone, but its still their apps as apps are encrypted to their apple IDs, which means updates require their log in.

Its still all DRM based.

 

[french toast]

Im sorry. I think the games I want to play will be available on XB1 too. I think that the XB1 will be powerful enough to make the games virtually indistinguishable on my TV.

I like the idea of cloud computing working with my console and look forward to what things developers dream up (like project spark).

I like the idea behind Kinect and though I wish the price were lower, I do not want an entertainment box without voice and motion controls as described will be avialable through Kinect. I do not beleive that there is such thing as a gaming only box anymore.

I want to have my entertainment co-located and avaiable on the fly with fast switching and have my games in the claoud so that the xbox one's location and media are immaterial.

If the implementation of these things don't work as well as advertised, then that will be a problem.

I think MS got all those things right.

All the other things in your post, are either nonsense (ie opinion) or noise. All you have told me is that I dont fit into Sony's plans this generation. i would actually consider myself a much more hardcore gamer than most people because I go where the experiences are - not where the brand is. I have owned nearly all consoles since 1992 except for the PS2. I'm "harder" than most console gamers but PS4 is not "that" hardcore a system. Its just limited to mostly gaming.

And thats fine too *shrug*

Thats what your tastes are..fine, nothing wrong with that, im just saying in GENERAL sony has struck the right cord amongst most of the hardcore folks..especially this forum and the media.

Personally I like the idea of kinect boxed with every console..but if that console is substantially weaker and more expensive at the same time?
It might mean cloud computing actually makes a difference in games..if so im betting that wont be for a couple of years in the mean time I can get a cheaper ps4 and likely play the better cross platform games and if xbox one shows the real world potential its harping on about, I can grab one cheap in the future.
Xbox 360 was a hardcore gaming machine with some very innovative media and casual gamer functions, also a friendly design, xbox one not so...more like the ps3 launch, lots of future potential, bundled expensive add ons not everyone wants at the increased cost, and likely less appealing multi platform games.

 

[patsu]

The one that has Intertrust suing Apple for not licensing the technology behind it.

All movies and TV shows are DRM laden.

If you're talking about movies and TV episodes, it's the studio's DRM policies, not Apple's. Apple simply implemented the technologies to support their policies. They apply to Playstations and Xboxes too. ^_^

Their iTunes Blu-ray digital copy mechanism works much better than Ultra-violet unfortunately.

Can I come to your home, hook up an iphone to your itunes and download whatever and as many apps as I want from your library. I doubt it or something has changed. Is not jailbreaking still a necessary requirement for pirating iOS apps?

No jailbreak needed. That's what I did. I sync'ed my wife's apps over to my iPhone. The OS just doesn't care. If I want, I can sign in with her account and download from her iTunes library straight to my iPhone too.

When these apps need to update, they will prompt for my wife's password though.

In fact, I made a mistake earlier and signed up 2 iTunes accounts. So my own apps are split into 2 libraries. The apps are all of course on my iPhone and iPad. When I download an app on an iDevice, the system automatically downloads the app to my other devices.

If you're worried about piracy, welp, after a while, I ended up with my own copy of the apps. ^_^
Those unused ones will be cleared/pruned from my "desktop".

 

[function]

Thats what your tastes are..fine, nothing wrong with that, im just saying in GENERAL sony has struck the right cord amongst most of the hardcore folks..especially this forum and the media.

Personally I like the idea of kinect boxed with every console..but if that console is substantially weaker and more expensive at the same time?
It might mean cloud computing actually makes a difference in games..if so im betting that wont be for a couple of years in the mean time I can get a cheaper ps4 and likely play the better cross platform games and if xbox one shows the real world potential its harping on about, I can grab one cheap in the future.
Xbox 360 was a hardcore gaming machine with some very innovative media and casual gamer functions, also a friendly design, xbox one not so...more like the ps3 launch, lots of future potential, bundled expensive add ons not everyone wants at the increased cost, and likely less appealing multi platform games.

Cloud computing to add something (rather than take it away as a clumsy form of DRM) is quite exciting.

Kinect 2 as standard is very cool - best piece of tech coming next gen by a mile. Kinect with in-game hooks for cloud based gesture and natural voice input processing could be the coolest thing in years. All of that plus high quality cloud powered voice synthesis for NPCs could be even cooler still. That could lead to the bestest ever RPGs ever. NPC and player characters in persistent worlds where you can't instantly tell them apart through simple interaction, and where your behaviour is mapped onto your avatar naturally and convincingly, would be mind blowing. Would get me to sign up for a MMORPG again. For real monies.

But what did MS do at the tent reveal? TV TV SPORTS DOG. At E3? "Something Something mumble <silence>" ---> translated to ---> "screw you, customers!"

Still in disbelief at how bad MS messed up. They got across none of the potential of Kinect and cloud, and through omission and mumbling managed to draw attention to all the ways they were going to screw gamers. The hidden carrot and the neon stick.

 

[Cranky]

Perhaps not ambiguous then, but inaccurate given what bkilian has said. The description said only one friend at a time can access your library, where in reality it was all your friends, just one different game each. I will concede that what they wrote was clear enough (even if inaccurate), but leaving it to a text document that users had to go and look up was explaining it poorly. They revealed their DRM, didn't communicate anything about sharing, waited 2 weeks while the internet was saying what a ripoff XB1 was and how no-one had any interest in buying it, and then hoped all those people who had given on XB1 would go and look up a text document. If I was intersted in a new product, say a Sony Xperia phone, and then I watched a 2 hour reveal and was turned off it by Sony's description, am I really at fault for not then looking for further clarification two weeks later, especially when I now have my eye on a new Galaxy that I've been hearing good things about? I can't blame people for being irrational there. MS should have explained their sharing policy in simple terms, preferably with a lifestyle video, at the XB1 reveal event.

This is definitely a case where a simple graphical depiction would have answered the questions. No matter the solution a few minutes in ppt and boom clearly illustrated.

 

[french toast]

Cloud computing to add something (rather than take it away as a clumsy form of DRM) is quite exciting.

Kinect 2 as standard is very cool - best piece of tech coming next gen by a mile. Kinect with in-game hooks for cloud based gesture and natural voice input processing could be the coolest thing in years. All of that plus high quality cloud powered voice synthesis for NPCs could be even cooler still. That could lead to the bestest ever RPGs ever. NPC and player characters in persistent worlds where you can't instantly tell them apart through simple interaction, and where your behaviour is mapped onto your avatar naturally and convincingly, would be mind blowing. Would get me to sign up for a MMORPG again. For real monies.

But what did MS do at the tent reveal? TV TV SPORTS DOG. At E3? "Something Something mumble <silence>" ---> translated to ---> "screw you, customers!"

Still in disbelief at how bad MS messed up. They got across none of the potential of Kinect and cloud, and through omission and mumbling managed to draw attention to all the ways they were going to screw gamers. The hidden carrot and the neon stick.

Yea for me I was hoping to hear more about what kinect would enable..remember that stunning milo presentation ?? Where has all that awesomness potential dissapeared?? I was expecting at least one first party hardcore game with some major kinect usage..nothing.

I was expecting microsoft to bang on about the extra performance all those esram transistors would unlock..you know super low latency for compute and post processing effects.

After hearing about the cloud..I would have expected a game showing some cloud optimised awesomness straight after. .clearly demonstrating the advantages of that feature...nothing that stuck out.

Afterwards I learned about titanfall using cloud compute for AI and sandbox world rendering stuff(which looked pretty good I admit..even if graphics were not mimd blowing)

Now had they intergrated Kinect2 into that game where you control the avatar whilst standing in your living room in one! And properly explained to people about the advantages of the cloud..yea could of been a winner.

The always on, drm , eye spy with my kinect eye lock down shit should have been debunked at the first reveal.
I almost think this console should of been launched holiday last year.

 

[dobwal]

This is definitely a case where a simple graphical depiction would have answered the questions. No matter the solution a few minutes in ppt and boom clearly illustrated.

Forget a simple depiction. I'm not sure why a company like MS operating in such a volatile circumstance (launching a console) didn't go "balls to the wall" and do a full work up with a website chock full of videos, graphics and detailed descriptions.

It makes no sense that MS didn't serve as the first resource for those needing questions answered.

 

[Cyan]

I hate to tell you but you are flat out wrong here. This is NOTHING ambiguous about that statement. A public statement like that has be cleared through numerous channels. Legal would not allow an ambiguous statement out in the wild. There are no asterisks referencing fine print. What you read was an accurate description of the service. Is it potentially missing details - sure. However, those details must fall far below the level of warranting an asterisk and fine print.

This misunderstanding is where MS really dropped the ball. They assumed people would read the text and recognize it for what it was. However, they failed miserably in anticipating the way fanboys and media would twist and contort facts into click-bait tweets and articles.

The truly mind boggling part of this is that MS was actually the MOST pro-consumer of the companies. They were actively trying introduce new consumer abilities and hasten the transition to all digital - which is a win-win for everybody but retail. They were even jumping through hoops to enable disc-lovers to operate business as usual given the constraints of forward looking system. Make no mistake, these DRM changes are DETRIMENTAL to consumers in the long run. Of course that doesn't fit the narrative.

Gaming media -and mainstream media- was decisive. They were vicious! There is a webpage where I always read the videogaming news, and the news feed updates every single minute or so.

I didn't read all the articles behind the headlines, but those that I read were the picture of misinformation, always (or mostly) attacking the Xbox One with silly headlines like "Xbox One spies on you when you are sleeping" -true story- and so on and so forth. Microsoft did nothing to change that.

As RacVic and joker454 pointed out already, the gaming media is to blame too. But in the end Microsoft should take special measures to thwart the possible effects of the negative, unfriendly media, but they didn't.

I try to forgive some press sites and I still can't. It's like those sites which assume Windows 8 is bad. It isn't -imho-. I switched from Windows 7 -a great OS btw- to Windows 8 and I don't want to go back. But maybe that's just me.

 

[bkilian]

So you sit down to play a game you've "borrowed" digitally and find out you can't play that evening because one of your friend's nine (only 9 mind you) other friends was borrowing a game that evening.

What kind of school kid or teenager or college student isn't going to have at least two of their friends wanting to access one of their games on many evenings and weekends? "Hey guiz I got cool new game X fight amongst yourselves for occasional access to it in dribs and drabs but watch out for Henry he'll leave his Xbonx on paused 24/7 till he's finished it hahaha."

First come, only one served. That's a horrible method of contention management.

Absolute rubbish. 2/10. Try harder MS.

But it's a wonderful method to drive new sales.

 

[Cyan]

From my piont of view Microsoft could have done better explaining there plans .
But there was a problem because of leaks most of the so called gamers had already make up there mind after reading countless scare stories .
Just take the time to read a fair few opinion pieces that are out there before E3 most were very anti Microsoft and there plans .
Now these pieces where being written based on here say ........they turned public opinion against Microsoft before the facts where known .

Then Microsoft made there statement at E3 the facts where listed on there web site for all to pour over and ponder .
But no one did ....they just ran with the negative stunt Sony ran at there press conference hours later .
At that point no one was interested in what Microsoft's policy was or was not all about the facts didn't matter .
It was bad for the gamer and anything Microsoft said from that point on was a lie to trick gamers into going along with having there so called rights stripped away from them .

The truth is we were all let down by the gaming press they did not do there job in my opinion. Which is to look at the facts from a neutral starting point then report the facts to there readers .

Now its over go take a look at the gaming press lots are realizing there mistake and ony now are softening there stance on Microsoft's original plans .

No kidding.



To report on a product, the media needs a story. You either give them the story, or let them report their opinions.

For example:
- "the Haswell processor is a waste of time for desktop performance."
vs
- "the Haswell processor sets new benchmarks in x86 power efficiency."

It's the job of your PR department to make sure that the story reported is the most favourable story.

i.e. If you don't spin the story, then someone else will...

For the XB1 - prior to E3 the story was "XB1 sucks for gamers and takes their rights away". Left alone, that's the story the media would print. And they were left alone, and that's the story the media did print.

The argument that MS simply "forgot" the basic rules of media relationships is unthinkable. You don't accidentally forget to brief on the 'killer feature' of your system.



MS had separate 1-on-1 interviews with the main representatives of the media after E3 to sit down and give them the story - the media are normal people, they mix with publishers... they know that this is complicated, they may not have agreed but they would have reported the other side of the story. Those meetings were the opportunity to force home 'the story of the XB1'.

Microsoft cancelled most of those meetings, and seem to have spent the rest of the time discussing "the cloud" and showing off kinect2 .

I find it hard to blame the gaming press for this.

Excellent posts. Microsoft should counteract some headlines by repeating and fighting back all the time to defend tooth and nail the console.

Some potential marketing arguments Microsoft could use:

- Kinect can be powered off whether you are playing games or not.

- Regional lock : (I was surprised and somewhat disappointed that countries like Argentina, Portugal and Poland weren't in the initial list but I thought that it was for a reason, developed countries but small markets to justify a big investment in the cloud infrastructure for now)

They could justify that decision being realist and saying that they would try to unlock the console there in a relatively short time until they have the servers infrastructure ready to provide everyone with an optimal experience.

- You can sell your games in your store, the process will be totally transparent to you.

- We have a partnership with Gamestop and Game to let them sell digital goods too. (I know of people who work on those stores who were told by their manager to promote the PS4 over the Xbox One when the DRM policies were active, and that's what they did when people -individuals, partners, couples...,etc- asked them about ng consoles)

- The cloud doesn't prevent you from enjoying your games online.

There is an interesting article on the matter about the opinion of a former developer on the subject.

http://www.edge-online.com/features/microsofts-xbox-one-eighty-a-big-win-for-consumers-not-so-fast/

Again, let's not pretend MS hasn't seen failure. Especially outside of their OS division.

In fact, Xbox was one of the rare business units that was on a healthy growth trajectory.

But that division isn't run by the same people now that started it in the first place. It is now headed by individuals that are looking to "maximize profit" rather than letting profit come to them by offering a compelling device/service.

In short, the Xbox division of old "wasn't that stupid". The new one, it seems are in fact, "that stupid".

The previous people did well, especially indies support and many other things.

But they also made two serious mistakes. One of them has to do with the RROD, and another problem is that the X360 had 2 SKUs, that fragmented the userbase and made developers' life easier.

I very much prefer the current future Xbox One in every possible way; hardware design & tech, features, etc, save the price, of course.

 

[mrcorbo]

So you sit down to play a game you've "borrowed" digitally and find out you can't play that evening because one of your friend's nine (only 9 mind you) other friends was borrowing a game that evening.

What kind of school kid or teenager or college student isn't going to have at least two of their friends wanting to access one of their games on many evenings and weekends? "Hey guiz I got cool new game X fight amongst yourselves for occasional access to it in dribs and drabs but watch out for Henry he'll leave his Xbonx on paused 24/7 till he's finished it hahaha."

First come, only one served. That's a horrible method of contention management.

Absolute rubbish. 2/10. Try harder MS.

Rubbish compared to what? It provides a better overall scenario than what disc lending currently provides.

You don't have to worry about lending your disc out and not being able to get it back immediately when you want it.

You don't have to worry about your game being damaged while on loan.

While it may not be the overwhelming virtue that should make everyone forgive MS's perceived DRM sins that some are presenting it as you're assessment is just as out of proportion.

It should be trivial to communicate to 10 people that one of your shared games is spoken for and that you'll let the next person know when it is their turn to borrow it.

 

[function]

But it's a wonderful method to drive new sales.

Well ... yeah.

Same as the "time limited access" shared library idea. The problem is that MS (or ... someone) tried to present this as a better alternative to being able to share all your games with whoever you wanted at any point. And it's not. It's okay as an addition to that, but ... god damn ... how did MS ever think they could sell this as a replacement to the versatile, workable and much loved system of game sharing that is popular in the current market?

It's not like Adam Orth didn't allow MS to see how badly things were shaping up with lots of time to avoid this mess.

After the MS backpedal I'm now prepared to consider the Bone again. It's all about Kinect 2 for me. Deliver something special and immersive and additive to what's good about current gaming and I'll have to get one at some point down the line (just like with the Wii U).

 

[function]

Rubbish compared to what? It provides a better overall scenario than what disc lending currently provides.

You don't have to worry about lending your disc out and not being able to get it back immediately when you want it.

You don't have to worry about your game being damaged while on loan.

While it may not be the overwhelming virtue that should make everyone forgive MS's perceived DRM sins that some are presenting it as you're assessment is just as out of proportion.

It should be trivial to communicate to 10 people that one of your shared games is spoken for and that you'll let the next person know when it is their turn to borrow it.

It wasn't one of your games it was all of them. If one person out of your huge group of 10 special friends was playing any game from your library then no-one else could play any of your games at all.

As a replacement to the current system of being able to lend one or more game to any number of people that you want to (simultaneously) the DRM system that MS dropped was absolutely rubbish. First come, only served from your entire game library. Sod that.

It's such an entirely unsatisfactory replacement to the current system that if people had worked this out back before the DRM 180 then the outrage and damage to MS would have been even greater than it was. That's probably why MS flat out refused to clarify what they were doing - they were accidentally and unintentionally getting good will from people who thought they could share their library freely. It was the only goodwill they were receiving and it was for something they weren't even offering. No wonder they kept their mouths shut right up until the backpedal.