News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Jwm]

Actually, thinking about it. What would make the most sense for a 24hr check in?

To verify ownership? Sure, but you could do that while also giving exceptions for longer internet outages and still be almost as effective.

So, what usually happens in 24 hour increments? Rentals.

This might be there to specifically accommodate rentals where you want to make sure to deactivate a copy after the rental period is over.

Throw in that the publishers can negotiate a fee for this means that it'll be easier for publishers to get a cut of rentals as well as used games.

If the period was longer than 24 hours. A person could easily rent a game for a day. And just keep their console offline until they finished it.

24 hours just fits the rental model so well that it seems tailor made for just that use case.

Regards,
SB

I have been leaning that way since we first heard of 24-hrs, why not 3-days, a week, or a month. But when you move to that sort of time, it would be easy to play a game for $1.99 and finish it in a month.

It seems like the best option would be to again have a special "rental copy" that must be in the disc tray to play (offline or online). You would not be able to buy that game like you can now from redbox, but the publishers would have an easier way to control rentals. It would still install to the HDD naturally, and you would be able to DD it.

MS had to think of all these things, so I am curious as to why they are going a different route. Leaving the disc in tray for offline or rental just seems simple and smart, so what is the larger thought process here?

 

[Averagejoe]

No, then his response would have been the standard "We don't comment on rumors". The fact that he did not break out the standard response is quite telling.

As to CBOAT, from his previous posts, he's an industry insider, probably at EA. I call bull on him knowing anything about XB1 yields. Yield info would not even have been widely shared in the xbox org, someone from outside it would not be hearing anything about it. Heck, I was working on a low level hardware component, and I would not even be able to tell you the process of that component, never mind the yields.

I know you use work for MS but.

If the xbox one is having yields issues,and the hardware will be downclock don't you think MS has to inform developers so that they adjust to new specs.?

If they were targeting 1.2TF in development kits by emulating that performance,and developers don't get info on it the games will have problems running,and if it deed the spec are going to be down clock i don't think MS will notify developers 3 days before launch.

If the unit is having bad yields and MS has to adjust specs,close 3rd parties at least with game coming on launch would be notify or know by now.

I don't know why you think this can't leak specially with the huge leaks both consoles suffer.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I have been leaning that way since we first heard of 24-hrs, why not 3-days, a week, or a month. But when you move to that sort of time, it would be easy to play a game for $1.99 and finish it in a month.

It seems like the best option would be to again have a special "rental copy" that must be in the disc tray to play (offline or online). You would not be able to buy that game like you can now from redbox, but the publishers would have an easier way to control rentals. It would still install to the HDD naturally, and you would be able to DD it.

MS had to think of all these things, so I am curious as to why they are going a different route. Leaving the disc in tray for offline or rental just seems simple and smart, so what is the larger thought process here?

That wouldn't be simple for publishers however. This way you have one package that can service digital and physical distribution. No need for any "special" versions which would incur additional costs. And it would also allow for the ability to have digital rentals.

People like renting from Redbox because it is convenient. Take that one step further and allow for digital rentals and that's even more convenient. Microsoft has extensive statistics for VOD on X360. I'm sure they've come to the conclusion that digital game rentals could be a potentially lucrative market.

Of course, the publishers would have to agree to that as well, and I'm not certain they would.

Regards,
SB

 

[Kb-Smoker]

The 24 hour may have been a change from 7 minute. That was the way it was reported before the bad PR MS got from twitter blow up.

Really all of this doesnt seem to be that big of a deal to me. The only thing that would affect me would be buying older games. I just brought simpson for the x360 and with this system in place I would not have worked. Buying older games its hard to find new any more. I sure gamestop and amazon would be part of the "use system" so this also may be moot.

A lot of this would be over looked if they go with more of a steam sale pricing. No one cares about the DRM on steam because they have such good sales. I not sure how MS could do this while protecting their retail partners.

If this is going to be the way all games just start working across next gen console. It was a terrible move by MS to lead the way. I really do not understand the way they are marketing this console.

That wouldn't be simple for publishers however. This way you have one package that can service digital and physical distribution. No need for any "special" versions which would incur additional costs. And it would also allow for the ability to have digital rentals.

People like renting from Redbox because it is convenient. Take that one step further and allow for digital rentals and that's even more convenient. Microsoft has extensive statistics for VOD on X360. I'm sure they've come to the conclusion that digital game rentals could be a potentially lucrative market.

Of course, the publishers would have to agree to that as well, and I'm not certain they would.

Regards,
SB

It would take you half the day to DL a 25+ GB game. Redbox is quick and easy.

 

[steveOrino]

And since it's publisher driven, likely to be the same for Sony as well. So I'm going to guess you won't be buying either console. And PC, smartphone, and tablet gaming are out as well as you can't resell those games.

Regards,
SB

Consoles were a last sort of "haven" for software I can own and play as long as the system it was designed for still works, even after that company is gone. I am only stating that this was the last generation of physically owning software and doing what I want with it. It saddens me cause I collect console games (I own nearly every system since the NES) and now it doesn't seem possible anymore.

Still, that 24h check in is bullshit imo.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I know you use work for MS but.

If the xbox one is having yields issues,and the hardware will be downclock don't you think MS has to inform developers so that they adjust to new specs.?

If they were targeting 1.2TF in development kits by emulating that performance,and developers don't get info on it the games will have problems running,and if it deed the spec are going to be down clock i don't think MS will notify developers 3 days before launch.

If the unit is having bad yields and MS has to adjust specs,close 3rd parties at least with game coming on launch would be notify or know by now.

I don't know why you think this can't leak specially with the huge leaks both consoles suffer.

They would have to inform them of a change in targeted specifications, but would not need to disclose the reasons for it.

And if there was a change in target specs, then all developers would know. In which case a major outlet like Eurogamer would likely have found out by now and reported on it. Since they haven't, then it is highly unlikely that any specs have changed.

For the same reasons an upclock is unlikely, so is a downclock at this point as ERP pointed out.

Finally, with regards to yields. Someone asked before when something like that would be disclosed.

For the most part never. The only time yields are ever disclosed is generally at Quarterly or Yearly Financial conference calls when shareholders wish to know why a piece of silicon (like a CPU or GPU) underperformed because it failed to reach projections or expectations.

Yield is almost never discussed with anyone outside of a company and within a company almost never outside of the department directly dealing with the fabrication of said piece of silicon.

In other words, even if Xbox One's APU was having yield problems. Noone outside of the company directly involved with the APU is likely to ever find out unless the Xbox One misses target projections due to lower than projected supply in which case they may have to report it to shareholders sometime in 2014.

NOTE - this does not mean supply constrained in that supply is less than demand. This means missing target manufacturing numbers which means not meeting target shipping numbers.

Regards,
SB

 

[Averagejoe]

There is a hell of a big difference between revealing the 8GB in Feb, and not revealing a 30% downclock 2 or 3 months before game teams aiming at launch will have to submit.
I'd be stunned IF it is happening and devs weren't aware at this point.

Exactly which is were the leak probably happen,this doesn't surprise me,almost everything was leak,so this leaking to it would be just another thing more..

Oh and lets not forget how people inside MS lied constantly to people on the issue of RROD,claiming the issues were below the 3 to 5% regular fail rate when it was much higher.

 

[Jwm]

Agreed, still fun to think out. With a full DD marketplace I think game demos will help, I could see myself grabbing a demo again. Oddly with Indie and xbla I usually grab the demo first, but with disc based games I will go to redbox and use that as the "demo". Strange. Lol

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Consoles were a last sort of "haven" for software I can own and play as long as the system it was designed for still works, even after that company is gone. I am only stating that this was the last generation of physically owning software and doing what I want with it. It saddens me cause I collect console games (I own nearly every system since the NES) and now it doesn't seem possible anymore.

That's certainly understandable. In theory, at least with the Xbox One, all games going forwards will run on any future Xbox One (virtualization). And assuming Microsoft never goes out of business, then all games will still run. That's assuming that any product ownership verification will be happening on Microsoft's servers, which is highly likely.

Considering it should be part of the cloud, and the cloud will be around as long as Microsoft is around, then there is no reason to ever deactivate a game for everyone.

Regards,
SB

 

[Averagejoe]

They would have to inform them of a change in targeted specifications, but would not need to disclose the reasons for it.

And if there was a change in target specs, then all developers would know. In which case a major outlet like Eurogamer would likely have found out by now and reported on it. Since they haven't, then it is highly unlikely that any specs have changed.

For the same reasons an upclock is unlikely, so is a downclock at this point as ERP pointed out.

Finally, with regards to yields. Someone asked before when something like that would be disclosed.

For the most part never. The only time yields are ever disclosed is generally at Quarterly or Yearly Financial conference calls when shareholders wish to know why a piece of silicon (like a CPU or GPU) underperformed because it failed to reach projections or expectations.

Yield is almost never discussed with anyone outside of a company and within a company almost never outside of the department directly dealing with the fabrication of said piece of silicon.

In other words, even if Xbox One's APU was having yield problems. Noone outside of the company directly involved with the APU is likely to ever find out unless the Xbox One misses target projections due to lower than projected supply in which case they may have to report it to shareholders sometime in 2014.

Regards,
SB

Since everything about the xbox one was basically leaks more than a year ago and almost everything has been dead on,i would not think is out of the question.

I know many here doubt CBOAT,but the dude has been spot on for ages,he is not a newbie and clearly has some very nice connection,and has confirmed several games already as exclusive for the xbox one from multiple companies.

You would probably not agree with me for this,but i would take his word over major nelson ones any day,Major nelson will try to damage control anything bad with the xbox one.

In fact what bigger example didn't he Major Nelson a couple of days ago talk about the policy for used games to be incomplete and inaccurate when Phil Harrison speak about it.?

But what they reveal today is the same thing Phill Harrison confirmed as well,is the same they just sugar coated it to try to damage control it,but is the same you can't sell your games to any one,and you can't lend your games to any friends as you do now.

I think there is a problem,i think MS is just been MS not admitting something bad like they have many times do,the single fact that they have even refuse to talk about specs and the way they are trying to silence the voices of people who complain about the xbox one is disturbing.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Since everything about the xbox one was basically leaks more than a year ago and almost everything has been dead on,i would not think is out of the question.

I know many here doubt CBOAT,but the dude has been spot on for ages,he is not a newbie and clearly has some very nice connection,and has confirmed several games already as exclusive for the xbox one from multiple companies.

You would probably not agree with me for this,but i would take his word over major nelson ones any day,Major nelson will try to damage control anything bad with the xbox one.

In fact what bigger example didn't he Major Nelson a couple of days ago talk about the policy for used games to be incomplete and inaccurate when Phil Harrison speak about it.?

But what they reveal today is the same thing Phill Harrison confirmed as well,is the same they just sugar coated it to try to damage control it,but is the same you can't sell your games to any one,and you can't lend your games to any friends as you do now.

I think there is a problem,i think MS is just been MS not admitting something bad like they have many times do,the single fact that they have even refuse to talk about specs and the way they are trying to silence the voices of people who complain about the xbox one is disturbing.

This is my last post on this as it should go into the rumors thread.

But what Phil Harrison disclosed was definitely incomplete and was certainly inaccurate in some things.

For example, no mention of the 10 member family option. Or the fact that you can gift a game to someone once for FREE. NO FEE. Phil Harrison said there would be a fee associated with ALL license transfers.

So yes, Major Nelson was dead on correct with what he said regarding that.

Regards,
SB

 

[MrFox]

That's certainly understandable. In theory, at least with the Xbox One, all games going forwards will run on any future Xbox One (virtualization). And assuming Microsoft never goes out of business, then all games will still run. That's assuming that any product ownership verification will be happening on Microsoft's servers, which is highly likely.

Considering it should be part of the cloud, and the cloud will be around as long as Microsoft is around, then there is no reason to ever deactivate a game for everyone.

Regards,
SB

History doesn't agree with your naive position.

 

[astrograd]

Most places if not all dont allow returns of software out of shrink wrap, so point one is void.

Overall I see pluses and minuses. It's a big plus not to have to swap discs anymore for example, a very big one nobody speaks of. You also will get much better performance off of playing only from HDD and no worries about slow disc loading. Another very big plus (although not necessarily related to DRM I guess, this could be in place on 360 just fine). And to have your library accessible anywhere. But there are the minuses already mentioned by others.

All the local GS's near me give you 7 full days with the receipt.

 

[blakjedi]

History doesn't agree with your naive position.

How far back can games go that will run on windows 8?

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Given the new DRM system. Really no reason to buy digital games.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

History doesn't agree with your naive position.

Really? I have games going back over a decade that require online that are still working. Every single one of my Steam games still works.

I can see a publisher stopping a game as time goes on due to limited server resources. But Microsoft is heavily invested in the cloud, so server capacity for something as simple as game ownership verification is a non-issue.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

How far back can games go that will run on windows 8?

You can still run games on Windows 8 that were created back in the 70's. Of course, some of those require emulation.

Regards,
SB

 

[Tap In]

That's certainly understandable. In theory, at least with the Xbox One, all games going forwards will run on any future Xbox One (virtualization). And assuming Microsoft never goes out of business, then all games will still run. That's assuming that any product ownership verification will be happening on Microsoft's servers, which is highly likely.

Considering it should be part of the cloud, and the cloud will be around as long as Microsoft is around, then there is no reason to ever deactivate a game for everyone.

Regards,
SB

exactly agree 100%... they will now allow all the software you purchase from Nov 13 on to be your license forever, running on all future consoles and anything else able to run it in the future

that is where your ownership is.. it's apple or android, it's a gaming eco system


why would anyone switch next gen if you have $1000 of software and media invested that carries over automatically and in 20 years (assuming MS stays in business) on an ipad 11?

 

[(((interference)))]

I would like to thank the jackass for PMing me that garbage.

But thanks for the troll.

He did get the cloud service part right.

No offense Reiko, just clarifying why Rangers is wrong to equate thuway's situation with your own.

I think you just really want a downclock to be true

Proelite has been so spotty, give me a break. He's only had correct info like, at a brief moment in time. Outside that moment he's been downright stupid.

Only for teh lolz
I would very much like to see NeoGAF explode if the downclock rumours are true, it'd be hilarious (it's already hilarious). But otherwise it'd be pretty abysmal news for Xbox owners.

And while Proelite's information often suffers from the chinese whispers effect and is coloured by his fanboyism - from talking to him he clearly has insider info (for example he was the only person at the time - besides me - who knew about the VMs and he was the first to name the audio block as SHAPE) .

So if he's saying stuff and is being corroborated by numerous other GAF insiders, then perhaps he's not being 'downright stupid' at the moment.

 

[bkilian]

ON topic:

These policies are hurting me, because I want to play Forza 5 whenever I want to. I just can't deal with it.

Draconian DRM does not gel with me.

And which part of their policy stops you from doing that? And don't claim the 24 hour check, it is a frakking _connected_ console, if you don't want to connect it, don't buy it.

For me, it allows me to play all my games on my second box, without having to find the disc. It looks like it allows me and my wife to play the same game at the same time, on different consoles. Something you cannot do today. I'm trying hard to find a downside, and the only thing I can come up with is that my old practice of giving away my old xboxes along with a bunch of games is going to be harder.