News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

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Seems to be three main benefits to this. First is that it frees them from the shackles of typical console development as they are no longer bound to any one manufacturer for any one part, they can source any part from anyone they want so long as its as quick or quicker than the old part it replaces, even doing this mid generation. They can potentially hop to different cpu, gpu, ram, etc manufacturers and not care anymore. Second, it frees them from the typical console cycles as they can now release new hardware anytime they want on any cycle they want based on market conditions due to them now having forward compatibility. Finally it will allow all the apps/games built for this platform to be ported elsewhere far easier, basically any other hardware that Microsoft makes just has to support the Durango vm. This is a boon to publishers as all their apps/games written to the Durango vm will be easily reusable elsewhere. It seems like a great and long overdue idea to me, win-win-win all around.

Agreed. Virtualization makes a lot of things possible. MS wants to start transitioning to a cloud based service mid gen and well before the majority of the markets will have the internet infrastructure to support it. Abstracting the hardware will allow for a stable and consistent development and user environment while allowing for the underlying hardware to exist in a state of flux. MS can accommodate users regardless of the bandwidth available to them while moving towards an ecosystem that isn't chained to any particular hardware.

A cloud based service will allow MS to remove barriers that exist between highend gaming and low powered portable devices, which will ultimately dominate the future landscape of personal computing. A ecosystem that's hardware agnostic would be attractive to any company that's more interested in monetizing the software than the hardware, which is what console manufacturer are all about. Providing hardware for gamers is actually a big headache. Transitioning to new generational hardware represents a costly and risky endeavor. It represents a potential point of failure as most established console manufacturers who have been driven out of the market were forced out by the failure of their new hardware to attract the existing userbase of their last console.

If you want to accommodate a mixed hardware environment thats in a perpetual state of change without disrupting basically your entire ecosystem and while mitigating one of the most dangerous time periods for any console manufactuer (transitioning to new hardware), virtualization makes sense.
 
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If you want to accommodate a mixed hardware environment thats in a perpetual state of change without disrupting basically your entire ecosystem and while mitigating one of the most dangerous time periods for any console manufactuer (transitioning to new hardware), virtualization makes sense.

Now that i'm thinking about it, whats the difference between virtualization and an API? Apple routinely swaps out GPUs on their hardware and OSX isn't virtualized, same with Windows configurations. Is abstracting the CPU instruction set the key differentiating factor?
 
Now that i'm thinking about it, whats the difference between virtualization and an API? Apple routinely swaps out GPUs on their hardware and OSX isn't virtualized, same with Windows configurations. Is abstracting the CPU instruction set the key differentiating factor?

I hope the virtualization we see in XBoxNext (or next next) and other Windows ecosystem devices is "DrawBridge" like virtualization .

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/interesting-XBox-Next-rumors-that-link-to-Drawbridge-
 
Nvidia should make a console next gen. I am sure it will be most powerful and 999$ only. Considering these days their top end card is 999$ :p

and if it's the most powerful, i will buy it

okay, maybe not for 999

ot but, i always thought it'd be interesting if amd/nvidia got in the console game, because if nothing else they now hold all the technology cards. if they were to withhold their tech from sony/ms/Nintendo in conjunction with doing their own console, they couldn't lose, more or less. maybe this would be illegal though. and i guess intel is getting good enough at gfx they might be in play as somebody the big three could go to, maybe,
 
Two days left and nothing yet ... we don't know anything . Not even a shaky photo of the controller ...
Makes you wonder a few things ...

the most likely day for big leaks will be monday, if we get any. i wouldn't be shocked to see some pretty detailed outlinings of whats in store for the show pop up on sites like kotaku. under the old "sources tell us" mantra.

most video game leaks in general actually happen on monday. sites hold their big articles for mondays, etc.
 
I would think we see some controlled leaks tomorrow, outside of forum hype there is not much news hype. Things always seem to slip the day before, so maybe major websites will publish small tidbits from sources.

NYT, etc, plus all the usual gaming sites.

Would love to see devs show pictures afterwards so we can see if anyone really had different paint schemes.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
 
I would think we see some controlled leaks tomorrow, outside of forum hype there is not much news hype. Things always seem to slip the day before, so maybe major websites will publish small tidbits from sources.

NYT, etc, plus all the usual gaming sites.

Would love to see devs show pictures afterwards so we can see if anyone really had different paint schemes.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

When are any kind of leaks good? There is nothing better that totally surprising your audience. Microsoft's actually done with before with the Surface announcement last year. Regardless of whatever you thought of the product, that thing was on total lockdown before the announcement.
 
and if it's the most powerful, i will buy it

okay, maybe not for 999

ot but, i always thought it'd be interesting if amd/nvidia got in the console game, because if nothing else they now hold all the technology cards. if they were to withhold their tech from sony/ms/Nintendo in conjunction with doing their own console, they couldn't lose, more or less. maybe this would be illegal though. and i guess intel is getting good enough at gfx they might be in play as somebody the big three could go to, maybe,

Nah...PowerVR could easily step up to the plate if MS/SONY/Nintendo paid them enough to develop monster TBDR GPU...;)
 
He isn't saying the specs are the same. Read the sentence again. He says the architecture is the same.

Tu quoque, you completely fail to get my point:
The proposed architecture isn't the same as the alpha kits. The alpha kits didn't have ESRAM, move engines, SHAPE etc. So regardless of how you think I read the sentence, he's still wrong by claiming the 'architecture is the same'.

It is saying the new chips have some moderate yields, which is an improvement over the yields from last year. I don't see why you are having trouble understanding what you are reading here.
You're the one with the comprehension issues, my point was not that I don't understand what they're trying to say but that the claim that they have improved yields from last year means that they had been producing the new 20CU chip from at least Sep 12:
Yield Rates of the chip have been moderate at best (Improvements since September 2012)

Which is complete bunk as this was before the beta kits went out and they only have the 1.2 TF chips in them not these supposed 2TF ones.
 
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I still don't understand why you would want consoles to run VMs for games.

These are all my posts explaining what I know about the VM and kernel setup on Durango (last one has the most info)

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1727596#post1727596
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1727605#post1727605
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1727620#post1727620
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1728170#post1728170
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1728358#post1728358

Bkilian commented on it too:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1728249&postcount=2748

ERP seems to be on the right track for speculating why they're doing it.
 
New article in the WSJ regarding upcoming announcement:

With the newest Xbox, Microsoft considered some prototypes to integrate an Xbox into a television, two people familiar with the company's plans said. One recent prototype included a plug for a high-definition video signal to be piped into the device, one of the people said.

Implies that the "HDMI-IN" is out...
 

Ok, "enhanced security" make lot more sense to me instead of changing the console life cycle or different hardware configurations.

Using a VM still wouldn't allow them to get around the fast 10mb eDRAM on 360 for example, so I wouldn't expect VMing the 360 would do much to help BC.
 
New article in the WSJ regarding upcoming announcement:



Implies that the "HDMI-IN" is out...

That's a big part of their strategy so I don't think so.

The article simply states it was included in the latest prototypes, not that it was cut, They sound like they don't know which of the prototyped features will show up in the final machine (eg. from what I know DVR is out) so are listing all the possible features they've heard from their sources and refraining from judgement.
 
Ok, "enhanced security" make lot more sense to me instead of changing the console life cycle or different hardware configurations.

I think since the box now runs Windows 8 you'd want some additional security there so people can't root it by using exploits in Windows.

Security and resource allocation between the game and OS seem to be the major reasons for using VMs, though that doesn't mean that the other possible uses shouldn't be considered.
 
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Serious question: what is the feature? How would you explain it to people?
For someone like me, it would be completely pointless because I have one of those cable-card modules you plug straight into the TV which obsoletes a separate set-top box, so unless I was to play two consoles at the same time or some nonsense like that there'd be no video to pipe into a theoretical next-gen xbox...
 
I think since the box now runs Windows 8 you'd want some additional security there so people can't root it by using exploits in Windows.

Security and resource sharing between the game and OS seem to be the major reasons for using VMs, though that doesn't mean that the other possible uses shouldn't be considered.

In my experience using VMs isn't so much as resource sharing, but resource allocation when you talk about CPUs and RAM. (network bandwidth, of course, is easily shared)

Using VM for CPU time and RAM allocation between the game and OS when you basically have, uh, one huge application (game) running doesn't make too much sense.

Devs will probably just take whatever is given and most likely will not be willing to spit back anything to the OS. Why would they do that anyway?

However, it does bring up the fun possibility of having, for example, dedicated server VM and a game VM running together if Microsoft allows devs to have a game run multiple VMs using the same resource of one large VM.
 
That's a big part of their strategy so I don't think so.

The article simply states it was included in the latest prototypes, not that it was cut, They sound like they don't know which of the prototyped features will show up in the final machine (eg. from what I know DVR is out) so are listing all the possible features they've heard from their sources and refraining from judgement.

They say MS "Considered" HDMI in, which to me implies it didn't make the cut. They could mean what you say but then I think its poorly worded.

Regardless, I hope they are wrong because its something I personally want and think they could implement far better than GTV.
 
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