New D3D FSAA Viewer

[DemoCoder]

Yeah, I almost thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when the 2T 60Hz rallisport stopped shimmering, I thought I was zoning out staring at the flicker, but it did eventually start to go away, even if I looked away from the display and back, I assume because the framebuffer flip in Bink's drawing loop eventually starts to settle down at 60Hz and coincide with the actual refresh cycle.

If I stop/start/single step bink I can easily restore the flicker, and the 85Hz version *never* stops flickering, no matter how long I look at it.

 

[MuFu]

Finally, something that doesn't look craptastic. The 2x2T 60Hz Rallisport bink finally stops shimmering after a period of time and comes to "sync up" with the display. But in real games, it still doesn't do it for me.

Sounds like something funny is going on then. Those videos usually look worse for me than T-AA in games - when they sync up perfectly they're about the same (and in such cases I can only see a slight flicker using 2x2T).

I guess there is a problem getting games to verticle sync up exactly with the monitor and maintain a steady 60fps. I thought if anything could do it, Counter-Strike could. If I set "developer 1", I can easily maintain way over 100fps. But for some reason, if I lock to 60fps, the framerate rapidly fluctuates between 59fps and 60fps.

Maybe it's just a glitch in the way the frame rate is reported.

MuFu.

P.S. 3d, yeah it is very interesting. We're more sensitive to flicker in our peripheral vision (more rods), so that *may* be coming in to play slightly as well. Plus people have different concentrations of rods/cones etc blah blah blah...

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Sounds like something funny is going on then. Those videos usually look worse for me than T-AA in games - when they sync up perfectly they're about the same (and in such cases I can only see a slight flicker using 2x2T).

Yeah...I definitely see flicker in those videos (60 Hz), and I don't see it first hand. I think there's a play-back issue with bink perhaps?

 

[bloodbob]

Umm their seems to be alot of aqusations that the temporal modes aren't as sparse as the normal AA modes. This is true for SOME patterns others are just as sparse.

2x and 2x2T are just as sparse

4x isn't as sparse
Here's the 4x modes: 4x 4x2T (8x) 4x3T (12x)

6x and 6x3T are just as spares and 6x2T prolly isn't to bad either.
Here's the 6x modes: 6x 6x2T (12x) 6x3T (18x)

When fps drops below the threshold I'd suggest it just sits on whatever was the past pattern.

 

[MuFu]

Yeah, I almost thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when the 2T 60Hz rallisport stopped shimmering, I thought I was zoning out staring at the flicker...

lol, I've been staring at these damn things for ages.

If I stop/start/single step bink I can easily restore the flicker, and the 85Hz version *never* stops flickering, no matter how long I look at it.

?!

Yeah...I definitely see flicker in those videos (60 Hz), and I don't see it first hand. I think there's a play-back issue with bink perhaps?

Well when the buffer swaps coincide with the screen refresh they look ok to me - about the same as in games. The reason that's not happening consistently is because there's no global clock. They're good enough to get the general idea across though - maybe somebody will have a bright idea as to how to sync them.

MuFu.

 

[reever]

I don't know why but i cant spot any flickering in games, yet it flickers like crazy in fsaa tester

 

[MuFu]

Are you running it fullscreen?

 

[thatdude90210]

I don't know why but i cant spot any flickering in games, yet it flickers like crazy in fsaa tester

Sure it's working in games? I saw it working in windowed fsaa tester but couldn't see it working fullscreen or in games until I set "TemporalAAFrameThreshold" to 0.

 

[KimB]

I thought if anything could do it, Counter-Strike could. If I set "developer 1", I can easily maintain way over 100fps. But for some reason, if I lock to 60fps, the framerate rapidly fluctuates between 59fps and 60fps.

I would think that alternating between 59fps and 60fps would simply be a measurement error on the part of the game.

 

[MuFu]

Well when the buffer swaps coincide with the screen refresh they look ok to me - about the same as in games. The reason that's not happening consistently is because there's no global clock. They're good enough to get the general idea across though - maybe somebody will have a bright idea as to how to sync them.

Well, I found out that my refresh rate is somewhere between 59.963 and 59.964Hz, lol [Edit - well, "resultant" refresh rate anyway]. Setting the videos to these values produces an almost completely stable image. Everybody's refresh rate is going to be different though, hence the problems. Tried using ReClock but it doesn't want to play with Bink for some reason (even with sound).

Ah well, off to bed...

MuFu.

 

[101]

I find the flickering and dot crawl to be very noticable in almost all cases except the 4x2T mode. It's high enough that it doesn't change as drastically between frames and low enough that it doesn't kill my framerate like 6x does. However even in this case I still get a good bit of dot crawling on slow moving diagonals such as weapon models or the top of a low wall.

This is on a fairly high end system too, 4 gig P4 and a 9800 at 450. I tried 85, 100 and 120 Hz and it does seem to get a little better as you climb up since the vsync has more high oprions to lock to.

If you had a LOT of framerate headroom in these newer CPU limited games then I think it could be a really nice feature.

 

[Simon F]

I just bought what will be my last CRT last year. I wanted a LCD but I just couldn't justify twice the cost for a comparable size LCD.

They aren't compatable in size -- that's the great thing - loads of desk space with LCDs

Actually, I don't think you can really compare sizes. For example, I run 1280x1024 both at home (LCD) and work (CRT) with comparable display areas. After using the home system I keep thinking my eyes need treatment when I get into work!

 

[dr3amz]

seems odd.

again im running farcry/halflife/3dmark01 in 1024*768@100/120hz with 2xTempAA+2xAA and i get no shimmering at all.

I have tempthreshold set to 0, so its always on effectively. I guess in farcry with vysnc being on, when it says 30-40fps now its really 60-80fps (without vsync).

same with halflife, 100fps solid (btw demo - the fps counter in net graph ALWAYS flickers between the max two numbers, in my case 99/100 as refresh is at 100 or 120 - and netgraph fps only shows up to 100fps - even if its rendering faster - just a known limit on the netgraph counter).

so hmm i dunno what to say, im going to ignore the bink videos because we dont know if they are capturing things `as you see them`.

*EDIT*

Just benched 3dmark03 and you can see it, i think this is because with vsync enabled you basically halve your fps right (to look at - technically its still the same as what you get with vsync disabled just x2 - and as long as you are below the refresh rate of your monitor, otherwise you are obviously maxed at that limit).

with fps dropping down to around 12-15fps on mother nature (24-30fps vsync off?) you can see shimmering on edges of rocks and such especially in the water.

*oops* just realised this was done at 3xT - gonna look again at 2xT (i dont think i'll see it at 2xT but hey! just for you! 8)

Ah well, can still see it with 2xT in 3dmark03 around the rock edges on mother nature, this is when fps drops down to the 15-20s again.

 

[DemoCoder]

60-80fps with 2x AA @ 1024x768 in FarCry? Can I have some of what you're smoking? You're cheerleading this feature a little too much.

 

[dr3amz]

60-80fps with 2x AA @ 1024x768 in FarCry? Can I have some of what you're smoking? You're cheerleading this feature a little too much.

no i said - if im seeing 30-40fps with vsync ON - wouldnt that be the same as 60-80fps with vsync OFF?

any need for the clever comment? No.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dr3amz/farcry.jpg <-- did you miss the fps counter?

that confirms what i said - above shot is with TempAA off and 2xAA ON to enable VSYNC OFF - which now shows twice the fps - usually i'd get around 50fps here with VSYNC ON and 2xTempAA + 2xAA.

never said i get that constantly either, will fluctuate around 50fps - 120fps depending on the scene.

So sure, you can have some of what I'm smoking 8) It obviously has its flaws (can see that in 3dmark03) but for me, farcry doesnt show any shimmering etc. Accept that it does for some, just not sure why. So i'm not `cheerleading` it - i'm appreciating it

 

[NocturnDragon]

no i said - if im seeing 30-40fps with vsync ON - wouldnt that be the same as 60-80fps with vsync OFF?

Vsyng simply caps your frame rate at your monitor refresh rate, so no it wouldn't be 70-80 unless you use a supercomputer and your monitor refresh rate is 30 to 40

 

[gandalfthewhite]

MuFu.

P.S. 3d, yeah it is very interesting. We're more sensitive to flicker in our peripheral vision (more rods), so that *may* be coming in to play slightly as well. Plus people have different concentrations of rods/cones etc blah blah blah...

heh im missing so many i dont see flicker EVER 8) those are my glasses not me being cool

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Wouldn't it be possible that the R42x has got TAA hardcode embedded into the chip? Ok you can most probably say that the R300 has it as well.. but maybe the code in the R42x is fixed. Things i'm talking about is maybe better CRT and LCD support like a refresh rate fix, better quality(although from what i've been reading it's pretty high already) and maybe even faster TAA

Also the Cat4.5 can also maybe have fixed the problems that you find in the Cat4.4(refresh rate etc.).

US <-- sits patiently waiting for the R42x to be released.

 

[Bambers]

So when TemporalAAThreshold is working (still can't get it to work, grr), does it switch back to a sparse sampled pattern below the critical FPS, or just to one of the component patterns?

MuFu.

I can't get it to work either.


What drivers are you using and what drivers are those who can get it working on?

I'm still on 4.3

 

[dr3amz]

cat 4.4s work dandy 8)

make sure you're adding the keys into the correct registry entrys (i had about 8 different catalyst entries

I'm not sure if it works with 4.3, i tried it with omegas latest drivers and it didnt work with those either.

I'd also state that this is probably just in beta stages too, and will most likely be finished for the x800 launch, with inclusion of sliders/options etc in the drivers.

So althought its pretty nice now, there are obviously some issues, which ATI are probably aware of.

Lets wait for the final/official release