that news is excellent 8)DeanoC said:
... as for the TV recommendation, I suggest the Sharp LC-26GA4U:
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1360,00.html
this TV is fully capable of outputting a true 720p picture 8)
N5 expected to use cutting edge processor and graphics tech
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
- Start date
... as for the TV recommendation, I suggest the Sharp LC-26GA4U:
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1360,00.html
this TV is fully capable of outputting a true 720p picture 8)
MfA:
> BTW do current HDTV displays support 1080p 60/59.94/50?
A few do. 1080p capable LCDs are out now. DLP based displays are either out or coming later this year. 1080p plasmas will be out by the end of the year.
The refresh rates are the same as always.
Fox5:
> I thought the gamecube component cable had a DAC in it so it could
> convert the RGB signal to the component signal(which isn't RGB is it?
The DAC could just as easily be in the actual system but Nintendo put it in the cable in part to save money, in part so that 3. parties could make even better (or worse) cables.
DeanoC:
> Anybody get any good suggestions for a small (a 50" TV would leave
> little room on a desk ) 720p TV with component or VGA input?
You're in England right? If it has to be small your only option right now is an LCD flat screen tv. You'll find plenty of 1280x768 panels from various manufacturers. Be sure to check if they support progressive scan and if progressive scan is limited to certain inputs (I know Philips sells plasmas that don't support prog scan via component).
The only CRT based HDTVs in Europe come from JVC. They only support 1080i however (but they are cheap). I wouldn't be surprised to see something from Panasonic later this year though. Their high end model PD30 (which has an HD tube) is getting a bit old but they're not replacing it this spring (instead it is being repacked as PX30). This means they will have to introduce something better in the fall. HD seems logical.
You can also import of course but I'd wait until we know more about the systems and various HD standards (ATSC and DVB are still being worked on).
> BTW do current HDTV displays support 1080p 60/59.94/50?
A few do. 1080p capable LCDs are out now. DLP based displays are either out or coming later this year. 1080p plasmas will be out by the end of the year.
The refresh rates are the same as always.
Fox5:
> I thought the gamecube component cable had a DAC in it so it could
> convert the RGB signal to the component signal(which isn't RGB is it?
The DAC could just as easily be in the actual system but Nintendo put it in the cable in part to save money, in part so that 3. parties could make even better (or worse) cables.
DeanoC:
> Anybody get any good suggestions for a small (a 50" TV would leave
> little room on a desk ) 720p TV with component or VGA input?
You're in England right? If it has to be small your only option right now is an LCD flat screen tv. You'll find plenty of 1280x768 panels from various manufacturers. Be sure to check if they support progressive scan and if progressive scan is limited to certain inputs (I know Philips sells plasmas that don't support prog scan via component).
The only CRT based HDTVs in Europe come from JVC. They only support 1080i however (but they are cheap). I wouldn't be surprised to see something from Panasonic later this year though. Their high end model PD30 (which has an HD tube) is getting a bit old but they're not replacing it this spring (instead it is being repacked as PX30). This means they will have to introduce something better in the fall. HD seems logical.
You can also import of course but I'd wait until we know more about the systems and various HD standards (ATSC and DVB are still being worked on).
cybamerc said:
Yep, U.K. The european HDTV situation is a complete mess!
I'm desperately trying to catch up, with EDTV, HDTV etc. Its put us game devs at a real disadvantage...
Of course with Sky (the U.K. satellite system) going HDTV in 2006 (it was annouced 3 days ago) its finally getting here. Better late than never
DeanoC said:cybamerc said:
Yep, U.K. The european HDTV situation is a complete mess!
I'm desperately trying to catch up, with EDTV, HDTV etc. Its put us game devs at a real disadvantage...
Of course with Sky (the U.K. satellite system) going HDTV in 2006 (it was annouced 3 days ago) its finally getting here. Better late than never
that lines up with the big 3 (abc , nbc , cbs) going hdtv in 2006 . So you guys aren't behind.
Not like many people will have the tvs for this
DeanoC:
> Yep, U.K. The european HDTV situation is a complete mess!
I don't think it's that much worse than in the States actually. The spec is being worked on it's just that you won't see HDTV on terrestrial broadcasts (anywhere in Europe). Surely there will be HDTV broadcasts on cable and satellite.
With the increasing popularity of flat panel displays the differences between Europe and the US/Japan/Australia will be diminished. And since it's mainly a hardware issue for you guys that should be good enough.
> Yep, U.K. The european HDTV situation is a complete mess!
I don't think it's that much worse than in the States actually. The spec is being worked on it's just that you won't see HDTV on terrestrial broadcasts (anywhere in Europe). Surely there will be HDTV broadcasts on cable and satellite.
With the increasing popularity of flat panel displays the differences between Europe and the US/Japan/Australia will be diminished. And since it's mainly a hardware issue for you guys that should be good enough.
Um, ABC, NBC and CBS already broadcast in HDTV. NBC lags the other two, which have been broadcasting in HDTV for prime time programming for at least a couple of years.
ABC did all the Monday Night NFL games last year in HDTV. CBS did one college football and one NFL game per week last year in HDTV. They should do more this year.
Fox is doing 720p for most of it's prime time programming in the fall and will do 6 NFL games per week in HDTV.
DeanoC said:
That's somewhat disappointing that they won't do 1080i or 1080p. Most of the HDTV sets in the US will not do 720p natively. They will either upconvert 720p sources into 1080i or downconvert to 480p.
The flat panels and digital displays are currently at slightly above 720p resolutions. But these are small portions of the overall HDTV installed base.
jvd said:
Well other than NBC, most of the the network programming is already HDTV. Really the area where they could increase HDTV content is to have all sports be in HDTV but they're supposedly building HDTV production trucks as fast as they can. The local stations don't run HDTV for the programs they produce themselves, at least not yet.
What programming between 12 AM-12 PM needs to be in HDTV? Did you mean daytime? You're talking about soap operas, game shows and syndicated talk shows in that case. I don't really care if Jerry Springer is in HDTV.
wco81 said:
1080p isn't an option, nobody can display it and its an awful lot of bandwidth/memory. 1920x1080p is ALOT of memory 24Mb just for 32bpp front, back and depth. Throw in a 64bpp back and thats 32Mb, if we are using eDRAM 16Mb(32bpp) or 24Mb(64bpp) just to support a single render target.
1080i could be done by using using half height buffers that would be 8Mb eDram for 32bpp. Is 1080i really prefered to 720p for games though? Both use roughly the same bandwidth/RAM (720p uses 7Mb eDram) but I get the feeling most in the dev community prefer 720p.
Edit: Calculation for 1080i framebuffer size was wrong.
Edit2: 1080i was right, it was 720p that was wrong.
I agree that today, there aren't many 1080p displays. But what about in 2009 or 2010?
Or even in 2006 when some of these systems would debut?
It seems console designs are targeted for the technology at the intro. of the console cycles, rather than towards the end or even towards the middle.
I think both Sony and Microsoft didn't really look forward to HDTV support so that is why HDTV support is meager or nonexistent now. It would be nice if they were more forward-looking but yes, they do have to minimize costs.
Or even in 2006 when some of these systems would debut?
It seems console designs are targeted for the technology at the intro. of the console cycles, rather than towards the end or even towards the middle.
I think both Sony and Microsoft didn't really look forward to HDTV support so that is why HDTV support is meager or nonexistent now. It would be nice if they were more forward-looking but yes, they do have to minimize costs.
MfA said:
The main reason for the dislike of field rendering is the need to mantain 60/50Hz rendering at all times (else the display resolution drops by half in the vertical). Hopefully 60fps should be able to be maintained at all time on next-gen...
Why are there 50hz modes for HDTV in Europe? Its understandable for PAL (its higher resolution than NTSC, so for a similar bandwidth cost something had to go) but HDTV standard in Europe are the same resolution as US standards aren't they? Surely HDTV can't really on mains voltage...
DeanoC said:
A bit of research and I can answer my own question... It is the main things (Europe is 50 Hz) but not on the display end (the TV) but on the studios producing the shows.
If they didn't match, you get beating in the image caused by the lights and other equipments that use the 50 Hz pulse in them.
But HDTV will be able to decode 50Hz, 60Hz, or 24Hz (CIF) so maybe games can just use 60Hz regardless.... Or 50Hz for a bit extra frametime...
wco81:
> Most of the HDTV sets in the US will not do 720p natively.
That will change.
> But these are small portions of the overall HDTV installed base.
That will change as well.
DeanoC:
> 1080p isn't an option, nobody can display it
That's not true. Even today there are 1080p flat panels. Two years from now I think they will be the norm.
> Why are there 50hz modes for HDTV in Europe?
In addition to your own answer I wouldn't be surprised if bandwidth had something to do with it. The less bandwidth a channel uses the more channels you can have. Hence why digital terrestrial broadcasts will be limited to 576i in Europe.
The DVB spec supports 60 hz as well btw.
> but HDTV standard in Europe are the same resolution as US standards
> aren't they?
Yes.
> Most of the HDTV sets in the US will not do 720p natively.
That will change.
> But these are small portions of the overall HDTV installed base.
That will change as well.
DeanoC:
> 1080p isn't an option, nobody can display it
That's not true. Even today there are 1080p flat panels. Two years from now I think they will be the norm.
> Why are there 50hz modes for HDTV in Europe?
In addition to your own answer I wouldn't be surprised if bandwidth had something to do with it. The less bandwidth a channel uses the more channels you can have. Hence why digital terrestrial broadcasts will be limited to 576i in Europe.
The DVB spec supports 60 hz as well btw.
> but HDTV standard in Europe are the same resolution as US standards
> aren't they?
Yes.
Actually, the trend has been the other way. Some early CRT-based sets did support 720p but CBS, which broadcasts in 1080i, may have influenced the manufacturers to produce sets with only 1080i support. ABC does 720p but then NBC is 1080i. Now Fox is set to start with 720p. Then there are influential but small viewerbase networks like HBO and Showtime, which are doing 1080i.
Of course, plasmas and fixed-pixel displays like DLP and LCD are currently at 720p or slightly greater and they're migrating to 1080i/p support. However, these are small portions of the market because of the price of the hardware.
For the bulk of the installed base, which are on CRT direct views or rear projection, 1080i seems to be dominant. While there are more pixels, 720p apparently requires more expensive components so the manufacturers put out 1080i hardware with scalers to push 720p up to 1080i.
As for 1080p, we'd all like to see it but without any 1080p sources on the horizon -- at least none have been announced -- any such displays may be more curiosities than anything else.
Similar threads
