Metal Gear Solid 4 post:#1067
- Thread starter Ben-Nice
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I suspected much since CGIs too follow the traditional camera more often than not.
However, I don't really believe that. I guess my ignorance comes with lack of education.
I can imagine it may be easy to disorient or distract viewer with free cameras, on the other hand traditional flying cameras, short or long distance bullet-time, cameras that emulate flies, etc. all have been successfully used.
Even CoD4 has pretty smooth satellite to FPS transition.
Admittedly most of those work like 3d stills or on slowmo, but it still looks to me, big/small screen camera and editing customs have been mostly dictated by limited resources, and the remaining 4d mediums are just emulating those, possibly due to familiarity.
i can't blame you , i think about the same (some part of truth ),and it's one thing that did puzzled me for a long time:why not use all that freedom,to just copy what we do in reality ?
The 'uncanny sentiment' was an argument given to me by an ex - cinema student ,that started working here in game developpement some years ago.
It's probably something they learn in school and are convinced pretty easealy it seems.Code , culture ,ruleset.
I still think there's room for creativity for virtual camera work ,it's still probably early.
RenegadeRocks
Legend
Guys, take a little time off from justifying and unjustifying the length of the cutscenes and tell me :How do you search a guard? I mean I held up a lot of guards but the contextual icon just doesn't pop up ! If I press triangle, i go into first person view. I tried moving to the front of the guy, but nothing.
Also, When I chokehold a guy by long pressign R1, I press x and crouch, but after that how do I make him lie down like Kojima did in that demo. I have finished the game but could not figure it out!
and tell me :How do you search a guard? I mean I held up a lot of guards but the contextual icon just doesn't pop up ! If I press triangle, i go into first person view. I tried moving to the front of the guy, but nothing.Also, When I chokehold a guy by long pressign R1, I press x and crouch, but after that how do I make him lie down like Kojima did in that demo. I have finished the game but could not figure it out!
Guys, take a little time off from justifying and unjustifying the length of the cutscenes
Also, When I chokehold a guy by long pressign R1, I press x and crouch, but after that how do I make him lie down like Kojima did in that demo. I have finished the game but could not figure it out!
When you "freeze" a guard dont keep pressing L1. Dont press anything. Move towards the front of the gun and a triangle will appear to search. But dont unequip your gun no matter what
To turn the guy over when you grab him, press x tto crouch while holding R1. Then move the analog stick sideways and press R1 again.
I didn't say all...I don't like Drebin's dialogue particularly, and i don't like his Beauty stories - that may have been more interesting if there were flashbacks to the event happening, instead of just the codec.
However, considering the rest of the dialogue and story, it's a small price to pay.
Guys, take a little time off from justifying and unjustifying the length of the cutscenes
Also, When I chokehold a guy by long pressign R1, I press x and crouch, but after that how do I make him lie down like Kojima did in that demo. I have finished the game but could not figure it out!
One...make them freeze by quickly popping up your gun. Unlike most people think, you don't need to walk in front of them. Just let go of your gun and press triangle. Yes, let go of your gun. If you are still aiming your gun and press triangle, you will go into FPS mode.
For the choking on the ground you are holding him with R1, holding R1 press X to kneel, then immediately let go of R1 and press R1 again while pushing the analogue stick forward. Hold R1 to choke him and let go once the guys passed out
There are around 9 CQC moves.
RenegadeRocks
Legend
Hmm...thanx guys! Will try out tonight. I wasn't letting go of the gun.
@Ostepop: If the dialogue and the way of presentation doesn't appeal to you, it can appeal to others. Every art form or means of entertainment has this fact endowed in it. I didn't like the Drebin stories of B&B unit, they might have worked if they had shown flashbacks like the The Boss story before the final battle in MGS3. Even for that the stories were all too similar. I would like to tell you one thing Ostepop, this game was trying to tie up the stories, you might not be understanding the meaning of some dialogues which people who have played the other MGSs were meaningfully nodding at. It happens with stories whose main aim is to finish stuff, Like POTC:At Worlds end: it was a good movie for people who had seen the previous two, for others it was a meaningless mashup. (I did not bring this up as a perfect example, but coz of the similarity of the situation). So. there may have been pauses in the dialogue where u might have said that "why are they looking at each other!" , whereas others were recollecting memories to tie up with it. There is no good or bad in it, its subjective, and for people who were not interested they gave the option to run MKII around and find stuff, if u do care for the story but not much.
There are moments where the gameplay falters and I think MGS3 gave me more control over my actions, but the way everything has come together and has been explained, made playable even for people new to MGS and the way it has been presented feels too good for a game.That is what has gathering the praises, my friend.
@Ostepop: If the dialogue and the way of presentation doesn't appeal to you, it can appeal to others. Every art form or means of entertainment has this fact endowed in it. I didn't like the Drebin stories of B&B unit, they might have worked if they had shown flashbacks like the The Boss story before the final battle in MGS3. Even for that the stories were all too similar. I would like to tell you one thing Ostepop, this game was trying to tie up the stories, you might not be understanding the meaning of some dialogues which people who have played the other MGSs were meaningfully nodding at. It happens with stories whose main aim is to finish stuff, Like POTC:At Worlds end: it was a good movie for people who had seen the previous two, for others it was a meaningless mashup. (I did not bring this up as a perfect example, but coz of the similarity of the situation). So. there may have been pauses in the dialogue where u might have said that "why are they looking at each other!" , whereas others were recollecting memories to tie up with it. There is no good or bad in it, its subjective, and for people who were not interested they gave the option to run MKII around and find stuff, if u do care for the story but not much.
There are moments where the gameplay falters and I think MGS3 gave me more control over my actions, but the way everything has come together and has been explained, made playable even for people new to MGS and the way it has been presented feels too good for a game.That is what has gathering the praises, my friend.
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Yeah, the GTA cutscenes are not nearly on the same level as MGS4 in terms of animation, visuals. I'd say some of the dialogue in GTA is poor, but some of it is ok.
They're mostly pretty short - a couple minutes. Some of them at a couple minutes are still too long, because they're pointless.
Could be true, to a certain extent.
I'm definitely not a fan of cutscenes. I think they're counter to what gaming is supposed to be. MGS4 is almost a hybrid of a game and a movie, because so much of the product is not interactive in a meaningful way.
Still, I can rate a cutscene objectively. Everyone is familiar with tv, cartoons and movies, and that's basically what a cutscene is. The dialogue in MGS4 is poorly written. It's meandering and takes far to long to communicate very simple information. All it does is drag out the amount of time it takes to get back to playing the game. I'm convinced they could have spent 1/3 of the time in the cutscenes and they would have been more effective in every possible way.
Poor story and dialogue means poor writing. Even the directing is poor in a number of places. Animated characters still aren't nearly as expressive as real people, so you can't obey the traditional two or three shot conversation that they use in tv and movies. Watching two rigid people talk there way through long-winded dialogue is BORING. They needed shorter conversations with more visual flair. Kojima obviously understands gameplay and attention to detail, but I wish he'd spent half the time on the cutscenes and put all of that effort into the gameplay, not that the gameplay is in any way bad.
I have no problems with the previous games, other than cutscenes. I never played them because I've never owned a Playstation. I didn't play bits of them at other people's houses, and I think I played through some of the first one on the PC.
I like to have some form of narrative when I play a game. If I skip through the cutscenes I may lose track of what I'm supposed to be doing and why. It's kind of a lose vs lose situation for me.
The cutscenes have several "check points". When you skip them, you don't skip the entire thing. Instead you jump ahead to the next segment. That will speed things up and yet give you some control over how much to skip.
Also, the Map will show you the next place you need to be. So it's easy to figure out what to do next. When you arrive at the target location, another cutscene will take over
Otacon is usually quick to chime in if you are heading the wrong way.
Thing is, what would be a suitable replacement? Half-Life-style? I hope not, I'm sick of mute protagonists -- give me cutscenes any day. And they also don't offer anything along the lines of meaningful interactivity, either. Or eliminate exposition entirely? That's a more laudable goal, 'Don't tell me, show me' but I don't really know how it'd be done.
I'm not really sure either, but I think making more and longer cutscenes is a move in the wrong direction. Those scenes in Half Life where you're locked in a room and forced to listen to a conversation are kind of an illusion of interactivity, and aren't much better, but at least it's seamless to the game so you never feel like you lose control entirely. Still, keeping things concise is optimal. Some day a great innovator will come along and redefine the way a story can be told in an interactive way.
I'm going to cut it out now. I'll agree to disagree with the people that are big fans of the cutscenes, and stop torturing all of you by beating this dead horse.
I think it's a matter of content and context. It doesn't mean cutscene is inferior to in-game storytelling or gameplay.
Cutscenes can be skipped. The developer has full control of the camera and can focus the user's attention on the right element (e.g., skip to a remote location) to explain things very clearly. If used correctly, it can also invoke deep emotion. They can also blend seamlessly with gameplay (See Uncharted).
The ability to control Mk II, perform flashback to gain Drebin points while the characters talk is one way to involve the users in MGS4. I also prefer the PMC advertisements and MGS4 TV shows (all interactive cutscenes) compared to the in-game TV shows in GTA4.
I don't want to spoil it for you. You should play MGS4 all the way. There are more cutscene innovations ahead. ;-)
One thing I like about MGS4 is that it's packed with imagination. Sometimes juvenile... yes; but there are occasional sparks of genius.
Cutscenes can be skipped. The developer has full control of the camera and can focus the user's attention on the right element (e.g., skip to a remote location) to explain things very clearly. If used correctly, it can also invoke deep emotion. They can also blend seamlessly with gameplay (See Uncharted).
The ability to control Mk II, perform flashback to gain Drebin points while the characters talk is one way to involve the users in MGS4. I also prefer the PMC advertisements and MGS4 TV shows (all interactive cutscenes) compared to the in-game TV shows in GTA4.
I don't want to spoil it for you. You should play MGS4 all the way. There are more cutscene innovations ahead. ;-)
One thing I like about MGS4 is that it's packed with imagination. Sometimes juvenile... yes; but there are occasional sparks of genius.
I found
Noami's death sequence about as pitiful and laughable as the B&B back stories
Done with Act 4. Nice to see the action actually pick up. A good mix of sneaking around and figthing.
I didnt find
B&B back stories stupid at all. Their back stories are inspired by real events.
Repost, since I can't find my original one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35160.html ("Live" CQC Guide)
Just to touch the topic one more time, MGS is an anomaly. Other than JRPGs, most games don't have huge cutscenes, at least not when compared to the PS1 days. I agree, though: they're just too long. MGS is a good game with an interesting story with mediocre presentation, but if they had an editor it could have been a good game with a good story. In particular the ending, it was almost comical the way
big boss would keep on talking and talking and talking until he died
big boss reveal
No. Big Mumma's cutscenes are gorgeous - amazing dialogue and voiceacting - Act 3's cutscenes and the HUGE revelations they bring to past characters is immense. And after playing MGS3 and seeing Eva there...it's just, wow, Eva is Big Mumma...she's so...grown up. Also Meryl's scenes are also very good, very well performed.
Remember this is post-modern, and some of the melodrama is intentional melodrama - it doesn't particularly bother me. Except Otacon's whimpering.
MGS4 takes a step forward in cutscene interaction and connecting the gameplay character with the cutscene character IMO. MGS remains best story in videogame history...and reading through the Database makes that all the more clear.
It is an excellent game with an excellent story.
What Big Boss was saying was incredibly important - without him saying it there would still be holes, and everything he said was "Wow, i didn't know that".
IMO play the previous games or don't play MGS4 at all.
They could have trimmed it, though. They could have relied a little less on cutting away to those slideshows for exposition. For several of the points, especially the emotional ones, I think less is more would have worked.
Sure, have Big Boss explain everything but then let him die, don't have him keep coming back with a '*hack-cough* oh, one more thing--' over and over.
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