Metal Gear Solid 4 post:#1067

[deepbrown]

I'm not sure if it's longer than MGS3, is it? The gameplay is so much easier that it might just feel shorter to me. I have to say, though, that playing MGS4 makes me wish they'd remake MGS3 using the same engine and controls, even though I just finished 3 a few weeks ago.

MGS3 was a 16-18 hour game (with cutscenes), MGS4 is a 25-30 hour game

I borrowed this from a friend. I haven't played a metal gear since my nes and I have to say i didn't find this enjoyable . My friend talked this up and loved it . he's been yelling at me all day , but what can I say. I really don't have a taste for cgi in my games . I'm glad alot of you enjoyed it though , its supposed to be the last one or something right ?

There's no CGI in MGS4.

 

[deepbrown]

Please stop the "oh you don't know how to play this!" I played in the manner that I felt was enjoyable. I snuck around and when spotted I decided to shoot. Wanna know why? Because I have SHIT LOAD of guns and ammo. Want to really encourage people to play it the "right" way? Ask Kojima why there are so many guns and ammo availabe at all times? If you want to make a stealth game and play it as such, limit the ammo and guns. It's really that simple.

This is a silly as "the only way to really play Halo 3 is to turn on all the skull and do Legendary on Solo. It's a 200hour long game and the only real way to play it!"

Another thing I forgot to mention were the loading sequences. What's the point of having the mandatory installs if you're going to have "now loading" routinely?

It's simple really. You can play the game however you want, but say the game is short because you're running and gunning, then your argument is void. Same with the gameplay. Did you explore all the separate villages in Act 2? How many alerts did you get?

The pace of MGS4 is slow - it's a slowly paced stealth action game - play it fast no wonder the cutscenes feel incredibly long. This is why the Act loading and cutscenes don't particularly bother me - because it's a slow paced game. If this was Uncharted and Halo then it would of course killed the pace. (And yes I hate the loading during the chase scenes)

Agreed. If the developers allow you to play the game a certain way, then it was meant to be played that way. If there is a "better" way to play it, then maybe the other way should have been left out. I've heard the, "you're playing it wrong," argument many times and it never makes sense. Games are broken, not gamers.

That said, I didn't have any issue with the gameplay, and hopefully I'll get some more time with it, because I thought it was pretty enjoyable. The only thing I didn't like, that I mentioned earlier, was that I found it hard to judge how well I was hidden, but I didn't know about the meter.

I don't believe it's as simple as that. MGS4 gives you all the signs to make you play it a certain way - Otacon saying "This is still a stealth mission, stay out of sight", the Cautions and alerts when you're spotted - meaning you should hide, or do something about it. The slow pacing due to Act loading and long cutscenes....the previous games gameplay.

They did the right thing in not limiting you, because that would give you less options when you are spotted, but I'm quite willing to accept that if you play MGS4 as a run and gun shooter, without exploring all the secondary routes that the game is short and the gameplay is average.

 

[deepbrown]

He is not playing the game wrong, neither am I, we are playing the game like we played splinter cell or whatever stealthy games out there. The game isn't long by any standarts, its an extremely long movie thought.

I know we have different views on what a SP game is. I should be clear - I don't mean openworld games. I mean storydriven, linear games.

We aren't playing the game right?? What kind of argument is that? i atleast know how to play video games, i'm not one of those kids that had to attend "special" school.

I didn't say you were playing the game wrong. I said Robert's gameplay time questioned whether he was playing it in an effective way to question the length of the game or the gameplay. (ie. 7 hours gameplay to 9hours cutscenes, whereas I played it generally quite quickly and got out 15hours gameplay to 9hours cutscenes.)

Its not the cheeseyness and comcial nature (only a few glimts of it), its the redundancy of the script. All the B&B stories are basically the same story over and over in a different country. (why not some kind of "dreamy" cutscene flashback of the things they do instead of having a not particularly great voice actor talk about them while we look at a picture) The first drebin cutscene repeats itself 3 times in one cutscene. Alot of the time information is getting told over and over again. There is nothing wrong with the production values in this game, its the execution. Kojima should have had an editor.

I already said I didn't like Drebin as a character, I also was the first to suggest that there was a flashback showing the events he's telling. I also think that Drebin should be on your codec, where he can tell these stories to you if you call him up - thus making it optional.

Considering I have to watch through the cutscenes again to really get a grasp of what's really implied and/or happening, and I have to read through the database to see somethings significance - perhaps repetition is the best way to extrapolate on a certain piece of information.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I know we have different views on what a SP game is. I should be clear - I don't mean openworld games. I mean storydriven, linear games.

'

And i know plenty of longer linear storydriven games. Enchant arm is easy 50-80 hours. Stop just making up stuff. MGS4 is not the longest game of this generation nor is it the longest linear game. Just because uncharted, gears and cod4 is shorter doesn't mean we havent seen games that last 30+ hours that are linear this generation.

It's simple really. You can play the game however you want, but say the game is short because you're running and gunning, then your argument is void. Same with the gameplay. Did you explore all the separate villages in Act 2? How many alerts did you get?

He is NOT running and gunning. Thats what we are saying. We play not to get spotted, but if we do, we kill the guy that spots us. You tranqulize them or reload the game. How does that change the gameplay?

The pace of MGS4 is slow - it's a slowly paced stealth action game - play it fast no wonder the cutscenes feel incredibly long.

Um play it fast, play it slow, 30-50% of the gametime will be cutscenes, thats long by any game standart.

They did the right thing in not limiting you, because that would give you less options when you are spotted, but I'm quite willing to accept that if you play MGS4 as a run and gun shooter, without exploring all the secondary routes that the game is short and the gameplay is average.

Your arguments are starting to become weak. First we dont play right, and now you got to explore all the secondary routes to get a good and long game? That means the game isn't particularly good to begin with.

What kind of ridiculous argument is that? Okay then, so SC takes about 50 hours to complete then, because there are 3 endings, and you need to play the game 3 times to really "finish" the SP. See how ridiculous that argument is? Your making strawman arguments, we dont play the game right, if you try all the alternatives routes the game gets longer....

The game is short. You are the one trying to artifically make it longer by doing a bunch of unnecessary things that YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO DO ACCORDING TO THE GAME. Your not supposed to interfere. Tranqulizing people is interfering. Your just supposed to get unnoticed to where your supposed to be and do whatever your supposed to do.

I have never played a mgs game in my life before. I played on the hardest difficulty setting avaliable. I have yet to die. I try to be stealthy, but if i somebody spots me, i kill them instead of reloading the game and move on.

I have had a few alerts go off on me, on act 2 i had 0 until the boss encounter (most of the alerts have come from bosses, are adds before bosses), my playtime so far is 8-9 hours, i have just passed mantis. I think the total alerts up until act 5 have been 12 or so. Am i playing the game wrong?

I understand that alot of people like the game and all, but cant you try to be objective or atleast make proper arguments when you try to write back?

Dont say we dont know how to play, or play it wrong, thats insulting. Dont count MGS gametime as if you do all the secondary routes and whatnot. Nobody does that.

Cant you just accept that while you may love this game, its not the best at everything? Because right now, your just not willing to listen to anybody, you just keep saying we play the game wrong, every part of the 9 hours of dialoge is perfect, even the times where they say the exact same things 3 times in a row. And your so concerned about anything that can put this game in a bad light, that your trying to count all alternative routes and whatnot to increase the gametime.

Considering I have to watch through the cutscenes again to really get a grasp of what's really implied and/or happening, and I have to read through the database to see somethings significance - perhaps repetition is the best way to extrapolate on a certain piece of information.

Drebin "Hi im drebin number 897, there are thusands of us, all around the globe"
Snake "Helluw"
3 minute conversation about how they deal weapons follow.
Octagon: "how does he manage to be all around the globe?"
Lets talk some more about how they deal weapons (pretty much the same as drebin said first in the 3 minutes)....
Then some more..

Isnt octagon a scientist or professor? Hes listening on the conversation, hes he smoking crystal meth? Because i would think a professor would have the required intelligence to understand what drebin said the first time.

I dont know about you, but im smart enough to remember and understand things that are spoken to me in understandable english. I dont need to get told the same things over and over again. Im not in special school. Imo, it needs editing.

Have you ever seen a good movie where the dialoge repeats itself over and over? Or where 5 out of 8 main bad guys all had the same backstory and all where told even thought if you hear one, you pretty much heard them all?

 

[Nesh]

MGS4 makes you feel like Snake, from animation to other clever techniques...so that's bull. You're playtime and criticism's reflect how you played it - like a shooter. Doesn't sound like you played it stealthfully at all. Plus you must have missed all the alternate routes. MGS4 is the longest MGS game, it's also one of the longest SP games this generation. Moreover, if you didn't feel like Snake - you weren't playing like Snake.

All the guns are different in feel and usefulness.

The cheeseyness and comical nature of the dialogue and script is intended. It's post modern writing that's been in the MGS series since the beginning. IF you found it funny, you were meant to.

Yeah I feel connected to Snake probably more than any other game character. I dont even feel like killing people because I do not consider Snake as a mindless Soldier that doesnt care about killing people. I am Snake! Therefore I am here to fight for a cause! Whenever I kill someone in MGS4 I feel that something went wrong because of that!


Really in what Epic game do we feel that we are the character? I feel like controlling something shaped to look like a humanoid. I dont care if its Marcus or anyone. And the same counts for the majority of games.

 

[one]

Enchant arm is easy 50-80 hours. Stop just making up stuff. MGS4 is not the longest game of this generation nor is it the longest linear game. Just because uncharted, gears and cod4 is shorter doesn't mean we havent seen games that last 30+ hours that are linear this generation.

What game are these exactly? Can't you beat Enchanted Arms in shorter time without bothering to touch all extras if you try to do so?

 

[Nesh]

Isnt Enchanted Arms an RPG btw?

 

[el_rika]

'

Have you ever seen a good movie where the dialoge repeats itself over and over? Or where 5 out of 8 main bad guys all had the same backstory and all where told even thought if you hear one, you pretty much heard them all?

The game is not structured like a movie but like a TV series or manga series. Repetition and presentation of different aspects/angles of the same problem/character/situation are standard script tools especially when we are talking about a script that contatins such immense numbers of main characters and background information.
The only thing it has in common with movies is the actual visual presentation and direction.

And your remark about 5 out of 8 characters having identical back story is completely false.

 

[Arwin]

Isn't Otacon's chatter optional anyway and something you don't even hear if you don't put on a headset or something like that?

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Isn't Otacon's chatter optional anyway and something you don't even hear if you don't put on a headset or something like that?

nope. most talks with octacon requires you to look at a video feed of him.

And your remark about 5 out of 8 characters having identical back story is completely false.

The five or is it four? girl bosses all have the pretty much the same story..

Spoiler

they all live in a wartorn place and get molested and forced to do things to people they love\know

Enchant arms is a linear RPG, yes. I could name linear shooters aswell (Bioshock is easily 20-40 hours++ ) Either way, the game isn't the longest one out there by any measure, and claiming it to be "one of the longest games of this generation" is just lol. (not directed to you).

 

[Arwin]

nope. most talks with octacon requires you to look at a video feed of him.

I mean the bits where he talks at you while you are playing the game. It's a bonus feature which you get when you set up the headset, then he talks into your ear, while the rest of the game has regular sound as per usual.

 

[Nesh]

The five or is it four? girl bosses all have the pretty much the same story..

Spoiler

they all live in a wartorn place and get molested and forced to do things to people they love\know

What are you trying to say there? That he run out of ideas and just used the same story under a different disguise?

 

[Cheezdoodles]

What are you trying to say there? That he run out of ideas and just used the same story under a different disguise?

I dunno what happend, but they are to similar for me to make it interesting to hear about more than one of them.

Spoiler

All the girls stories goes like this: They live in a warthorn country, they get molested\something terrible happends. They capture the girl, make her to stuff to the other people in the village. And as they where doing it they where laughing\crying\whatever, and now they are crying\laughing\raging\whatever beauty

Its not exactly the most creative and original stories, nor do they differ much from eachother.

I may be wrong but thats the impression i got, i kinda fast forwarded the last 2 or so stories because of boredom after the first few sentances.

 

[RobertR1]

What are you trying to say there? That he run out of ideas and just used the same story under a different disguise?

It's pretty obvious he did. Even their dialouge is the similar. cue very overly dramatic "omg...stop the crying/laughing/screaming! then collapses and gets up and it's ok to cry/laugh/scream and does this action" It's terrible. And clearly snake is too much of a douchebag to actually sit there and listen to this instead of killing them. I can understand it in on the first boss but after that you'd think he'd get a clue but then we'd miss out on this wonderful interaction. Maybe because I'm not into cheesy Japanese anime I can't appreciate it but for someone trying to give such a theatrical presentation in a video game, the B&B stuff is awfully done.

 

[eastmen]

MGS3 was a 16-18 hour game (with cutscenes), MGS4 is a 25-30 hour game



There's no CGI in MGS4.

then the movies in the game are real actors ?

 

[Nesh]

It is not obvious at all. Thats the general shallow impression people get. But if you ever happen to read about war crimes, civil wars, war murders etc that happened on different locations/countries you will see similar examples to those mentioned in the game.

Especially the first three.

It seems that efforts trying to express pain in certain media seem too peculiar to many. And I blame it partially on the fact that we rarely try to see the trauma and pain of actual events, and that we are very destructed from reality.

MGS4 in particular tried to convey or express pain if you like in a similar manner as expressed in novels, literature or probably even poetry.

It is unfortunate though that this is considered "stupid", "overly dramatized" or "a failed effort".

I feel that the problem is that we are turning into insensitive people.

 

[Nesh]

then the movies in the game are real actors ?

He ment that it is real time not prerendered

 

[Cheezdoodles]

It is not obvious at all. Thats the general shallow impression people get. But if you ever happen to read about war crimes, civil wars, war murders etc that happened on different locations/countries you will see similar examples to those mentioned in the game..

Yeah, but each story is basically the same one! Thats the whole problem, there is no variety. And i loled at scandinavia being war torn but its a game so...

It is unfortunate though that this is considered "stupid", "overly dramatized" or "a failed effort".

I feel that the problem is that we are turning into insensitive people.

Its not like that at all. If the stories would have been better executed and different from eachother i would have watched with interest. Its just that the story repeat itself over and over again (its the same basic story) with all the beats. The whole thing when they are towards you on the end of each boss fight is ridiculous aswell imo. Why is there so much stuff that gets repeated over and over again?

Couldn't the girls have gone "bad" another way than their village getting wartorn and them getting molested and then forced to molest people they know every single time?Its the same story, just change the mood the girl is into according to her name, switch the locations, and its the same story.

Its not like i like i hate japanese games or movies (i thought the FF movie was good), its not that im to insensitive or anything, but there is nothing that pulls me into the immersions or sparks any interest whatsoever in having drebin tell me the same ****ing story 5 times.

There's no CGI in MGS4.

Yes there is plenty of CGI in MGS4, atleast one of the cutscenes is not realtime rendered thus CGI, and the commercials are most definately CGI.

 

[eastmen]

He ment that it is real time not prerendered

whatever it is , it will still take me out of the game for long periods of time with no input from me . Thats a deal breaker for me it might as well just be a cgi movie at that point

 

[Jugix]

I just finished MGS4 with Big Boss difficulty and all I can say is wow! Gameplay was brilliant and cutscene stories were spot on for me. Beautiful piece of work all around. Took me about ~20h to finish the game. Cutscenes were atleast 3h give or take a hour but it did not bother me. Now I must immediately try Big Boss Extreme and try to do a power-run for under 5h without alerts, kills, etc.

:thumbsup: kojima.