Metal Gear Solid 4 post:#1067

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patsu said:
Yes. Everyone tells me that Solid Snake is the genetically inferior brother. So I took a defensive strategy when fighting Liquid. I don't think it's fair to have Konami gimp Liquid if that's what the story called for. Afterall, we are there to prove that techniques and nurture can beat genetics and nature (Gattaca, ftw !)



Well, I know what I want to say. Don't ever make me do it again ! I almost lost my thumb in that short segment.



The sound tracks are nice, but the one that rose above all was the theme when Snake sneaked into
Shadow Mosses in Act 4.
Click to expand...

Also, aren't you forgetting that it isn't Snake who kills Liquid Ocelot....it's the Fox Die. Fox Die killed Eva, Ocelot and Big Boss. That is the only reason Ocelot died, not because of your punching. He was destined to die in the presence of Solid Snake.

Cornsnake said:
At the end of MGS, Liquid tells Solid that Big Boss always told him that he ( Liquid ) was inferior.

I still stand by what I said about that fight. You can time all you want but its the game that ultimately decides whether you hit him or not.

Foxdie
was made to targets people with specific genes. Snake was infected with it, and as soon as he got close to one of the targets it would infect them and later kill them. It was the Patriots, the AI's intention to kill all the original Patriots that rebelled against Zero. These are Eva, Ocelot and Big Boss.
Click to expand...

Just played the fight again...it's not luck. Nor does it matter.

RenegadeRocks said:
Right at that moment when they were talking?
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
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Well sure... but the objective of that fight was simply to defeat Liquid Ocelot, dead or alive.
It's a pity LO had to die, the system was destroyed, and he had no intention to change the world as it were (Did I get this part right ? I wasn't really paying attention during cutscenes :p )
 
patsu said:
Well sure... but the objective of that fight was simply to defeat Liquid Ocelot, dead or alive.
It's a pity LO had to die, the system was destroyed, and he had no intention to change the world as it were (Did I get this part right ? I wasn't really paying attention during cutscenes :p )
Click to expand...

Well I'm just saying that even though Liquid was the superior twin, Snake had the upper hand with Fox Die. LO wasn't "gimped" for that fight as you put it.
Liquid wanted to free the world from control of the patriots and SOP to create...well, chaos...a world where people "found themselves" in fighting.
(I think) Ocelot...hmm not sure about him.
 
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I finished it just now. I am a bit confused about Foxdie.
Naomi injected it to kill snake or The patriots? If she wanted to kill the patriots then why, when she knew that they were no more humans but just an AI? And if the ending was an indication then why did she program it to kill Big Boss, Ocelot and Eva
when they were fighting for the same cause?
 
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Nesh said:
I finished it just now. I am a bit confused about Foxdie.
Naomi injected it to kill snake or The patriots? If she wanted to kill the patriots then why, when she knew that they were no more humans but just an AI? And if the ending was an indication then why did she program it to kill Big Boss, Ocelot and Eva
when they were fighting for the same cause?
Click to expand...

This is all very long ago now, so I may be wrong.
I thought she injected the FoxDie virus originally to take revenge on Solid Snake for killing Gray Fox. However, the virus didn't kill Solid Snake because he was different from the other clones ? Instead, Solidus, Liquid, Big Boss, and the other targets were targeted instead.

This was all done long ago before she found out about the truth. There is no way to change it since the virus has mutated as indicated in Act 2.

Does the MGS Database say anything about this ?
 
Nesh said:
I finished it just now. I am a bit confused about Foxdie.
Naomi injected it to kill snake or The patriots? If she wanted to kill the patriots then why, when she knew that they were no more humans but just an AI? And if the ending was an indication then why did she program it to kill Big Boss, Ocelot and Eva
when they were fighting for the same cause?
Click to expand...

Drebin infects Snake again to target the original Patriots. Because he was controlled by the AI's.
 
Dumb noobie question, I bought a scope from Drebin, but when I go into my weapon customization it wants me to buy it again and my money is gone. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.
 
Hm... that can't be right. The only time something like this happened to me was because I didn't press the right button (to buy the component); or I bought the component for a different gun.
 
patsu said:
This is all very long ago now, so I may be wrong.
I thought she injected the FoxDie virus originally to take revenge on Solid Snake for killing Gray Fox. However, the virus didn't kill Solid Snake because he was different from the other clones ? Instead, Solidus, Liquid, Big Boss, and the other targets were targeted instead.

This was all done long ago before she found out about the truth. There is no way to change it since the virus has mutated as indicated in Act 2.

Does the MGS Database say anything about this ?
Click to expand...

Well I remember it like this:
Naomi was originally ordered to inject FoxDie into snake for the shadow moses mission to target and kill specific people; The darpa chief, liquid, etc. Snake was not originally a target. In MGS4 they explain that Snake and Liquid have different genes even if they are similar. (this is why liquid says they are not the same as their father after all).

Naomi wanted to exact revenge on snake by making the FoxDie also target solid snake but with a wild card programmed in it. She felt it was better for him to live in fear of "death at anytime" than to just flat out die. In the end of MGS1, when she realized the truth about grey fox, she told snake something like "All I can tell you is live your life to the fullest", implying that she did program it to kill him but just at an unknown time.

I'm confused about something else... Why did Naomi
grope vamp and basically order him to destroy snake when in reality she is supposed to be the mastermind of the destruction of the patriots and the ultimate "good guy". Halfway through the game they basically make you think Naomi is a betrayer and that vamp scene pretty much sealed the deal for me. Then later she busts out the whole "haha! i'm actually good" card. :oops: Anyone who has a better recollection of that scene have any input?
 
dabomb665m said:
Well I remember it like this:
Naomi was originally ordered to inject FoxDie into snake for the shadow moses mission to target and kill specific people; The darpa chief, liquid, etc. Snake was not originally a target. In MGS4 they explain that Snake and Liquid have different genes even if they are similar. (this is why liquid says they are not the same as their father after all).

Naomi wanted to exact revenge on snake by making the FoxDie also target solid snake but with a wild card programmed in it. She felt it was better for him to live in fear of "death at anytime" than to just flat out die. In the end of MGS1, when she realized the truth about grey fox, she told snake something like "All I can tell you is live your life to the fullest", implying that she did program it to kill him but just at an unknown time.

I'm confused about something else... Why did Naomi
grope vamp and basically order him to destroy snake when in reality she is supposed to be the mastermind of the destruction of the patriots and the ultimate "good guy". Halfway through the game they basically make you think Naomi is a betrayer and that vamp scene pretty much sealed the deal for me. Then later she busts out the whole "haha! i'm actually good" card. :oops: Anyone who has a better recollection of that scene have any input?
Click to expand...

Only reason I can figure is she
felt bad about Vamp's state and realized that only Snake could defeat him. So she kinda pushed Vamp to fight so that he would die. She also knew that snake had the means to do it since she gave them to him earlier.
 
Blade47167 said:
Only reason I can figure is she
felt bad about Vamp's state and realized that only Snake could defeat him. So she kinda pushed Vamp to fight so that he would die. She also knew that snake had the means to do it since she gave them to him earlier.
Click to expand...

So...
the groping was part of that suggestion method? It almost seemed like they were lovers... vamp even calls her his queen... the same thing he called fortune in MGS2. Anyway, wish there was more explanation to that.
 
dabomb665m said:
So...
the groping was part of that suggestion method? It almost seemed like they were lovers... vamp even calls her his queen... the same thing he called fortune in MGS2. Anyway, wish there was more explanation to that.
Click to expand...

I think
thats just part of how Kojima likes to write the story. There are lots of characters that change between the "good" and "bad" side all the time.
 
dabomb665m said:
So...
the groping was part of that suggestion method? It almost seemed like they were lovers... vamp even calls her his queen... the same thing he called fortune in MGS2. Anyway, wish there was more explanation to that.
Click to expand...

It reminds me a lot of
Fortune. Both Naomi and Fortune couldnt die. And he called both "my Queen". Probably there was indeed something between Naomi and Vamp, but still Naomi wanted to release him from "immortality". She was probably playing her role to erase any kind of suspicion.
 
Nesh said:
It reminds me a lot of
Fortune. Both Naomi and Fortune couldnt die. And he called both "my Queen". Probably there was indeed something between Naomi and Vamp, but still Naomi wanted to release him from "immortality". She was probably playing her role to erase any kind of suspicion.
Click to expand...

Fortune was MGS 1 right? I guess I need to go back and play it again. I don't remember her at all. Haven't played it since it came out back in the day.
 
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