Metal Gear Solid 4 gameplay trailer @ TGS

[Eagle-Vision]

What wrong with that texture? Explain please. Just like we've seen with the TGS 2005 video the direct feed video was better than "ALL" blurry off-screen video. Again watch the video.

Yes, direct feed is better for purposes of analysis, but the only direct feed media we have from the TGS are the screenshots, which are perfect to judge texture resolution. A blurry video is not.

The game looks the same and in a lot of spots better now than it did at last years TGS 2005 video. Again look at the video. Your memories of the TGS 2005 video must be messed up.

The lighting was much better (what happened to the contrast?), and it also ran at perfect 60 fps.

I'll say again watch the video, unless being a screenshot kid is what you want to be. Why would anybody want to take the screenshots to be what the game will look like over the video. What's going on around here? This board is suppose to be the board of reason and intellence. But it seems like it's worst than other crazier boards on the internet.

Unless the video is direct feed, it's not suitable to examine the texture resolution or quality of the models for example.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, direct feed is better for purposes of analysis, but the only direct feed media we have from the TGS are the screenshots, which are perfect to judge texture resolution. A blurry video is not.

The lighting was much better (what happened to the contrast?), and it also ran at perfect 60 fps.

Unless the video is direct feed, it's not suitable to examine the texture resolution or quality of the models for example.

The lighting is actually better now than the TGS 2005 video. That much is obvious and almost non-debatable. The proof is in the pudding.

And I'll ask you this. Do you think direct feed "VIDEO" will look worst than the off hand camera footage? Do you actually believe this?

 

[Eagle-Vision]

The lighting is actually better now than the TGS 2005 video. That much is obvious and almost non-debatable. The proof is in the pudding.

Non-debatable? It's clearly worse, it's completely flat.

And I'll ask you this. Do you think direct feed "VIDEO" will look worst than the off hand camera footage? Do you actually believe this?

Low quality videos usually tend to hide flaws. And besides, that's my point. We're using direct feed screenshots because the non-direct feed video is useless for stuff like texture quality.

 

[scooby_dooby]

That much is obvious and almost non-debatable.

*cues the Twilight Zone music *

 

[Bad_Boy]

Here's a few screen grabs i just took from the TGS 2006 trailer, IGN's picture's seem way to bright and seem to have lost the detail and some colour as a result.

Very last pic of snake is

Looks amazing imo, still some placeholder textures here and there, but it's crazy to think Kojima still has about another year left of development time if hes aiming for Q4 07. Can't wait to see the finished/final game.

 

[mckmas8808]

Non-debatable? It's clearly worse, it's completely flat.

Low quality videos usually tend to hide flaws. And besides, that's my point. We're using direct feed screenshots because the non-direct feed video is useless for stuff like texture quality.

You do realize that the direct feed video of every MGS4 video was better quality than the off hand camera stuff right?

But whatever your right. All the textures suck. Lighting sucks and looks PS2 quailty right?

Also I can find textures that look low quality to in games like Gears of War, but do you see me crying about it? No because the overall game looks amazing. Again why act like you can't see these pictures?

 

[one]

I was thinking about what's going on there, what came up as my thought is how destructible these buildings can be while maintaining nice precomputed visual tricks.

 

[Phil]

I'm with mckmas8808 and Bobbler on this one. Just browsed neoGaf and found some screengrabs from last years TGS and some of them look equally washed-out, especially in the areas with a lot of light (i.e. when Snake looks out of the window in the TGS2005 video and you can see the sweat on his face).

I think the main difference we're seeing and debating is resulted by the lighting. It could be that Konami is fiddling around with extreme lighting situations, i.e. areas that are very dark and other areas of battles in direct sunlight which would be quite over-exposed compared to the indoor locations. When I look at the video grabs from above from the TGS2006 video, things already look a lot better, which for me concludes that we're not entirely comparing apples to apples but the same Snake model in different ligthing conditions that result in very different results. Grab quality may also be an issue.

mckmas8808, do you have a link to that high quality MGS4-TGS-2006 trailer? I'd love to take a closer look... I only have a version of around 40 MB or so... thanks!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What's all this talk about downgraded Snake model and horrible textures? Did you guys even look at the video or are you just screenshot kids?

The video's textures looked like this.
So I ask, what's wrong with those textures?

Nothing. They look great. Now tell me what's right with these textures...

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/5327/ps3metalgearsolid4gunsofthepatriots1158892487zy7.jpghttp://img83.imageshack.us/img83/532...92487zy7.j pg
http://images.playsyde.com/gallery/public/4198/899_0002.jpg

'Coz if you hadn't been following, we were talking about particular examples, and not just carpet-complaining (carpet-bombing with complaints) about every MGS4 texture.

 

[Phil]

Nothing. They look great. Now tell me what's right with these textures...

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/532...92487zy7.j pg
http://images.playsyde.com/gallery/p...8/899_0002.jpg

'Coz if you hadn't been following, we were talking about particular examples, and not just carpet-complaining (carpet-bombing with complaints) about every MGS4 texture.

Links don't work Shifty. And on the other hand, so what if we can find examples of textures that look blurry? Bobbler offered quite a reasonable explanation that would suggest it would be less of a problem when you're actually playing the game. I also don't quite see what the point is in taking particular examples that may not be the norm while playing anyway - or simply due to the state the game is in at the moment: in development and for release sometime a year from now.

Now, from what I understand - this whole discussion started about a possible downgrade from previous footage. The point that mckmas8808 was making, is that the game on the whole doesn't look downgraded and showed other examples of the game that would suggest the engine is still capable of the better scenes we saw in previous footage. Perhaps it is in fact less of a "downgrade" but just an unfinished product still under development?

 

[London Geezer]

Am i the only one who thinks that all textures in all games are blurry? Why going over it again and again? Some games will have sharper textures at the expense of something else, while MGS4 will have other very good aspects about it at the expense of the textures.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Links don't work Shifty.

Ok, I've fixed them. They're pics from this thread anyhow.

And on the other hand, so what if we can find examples of textures that look blurry?

They're not blurry - they're pixelated!

Now, from what I understand - this whole discussion started about a possible downgrade from previous footage...Perhaps it is in fact less of a "downgrade" but just an unfinished product still under development?

Quite probably. I wasn't saying MGS4 was downgraded, or even had bad texturing overall. I was just commenting on the linked to images that do show really bad quality aspects. I'm just commenting on the content people bring to the table. When you get some people looking at pictures with hideous texturing saying they can't see anything wrong with that picture, I do this...

If they say they don't see anything wrong with the game as a whole, because there's much better examples out there, that's a different story.

To clarify, looking at this...

we can't say the game has a whole has been downgraded, but we can say that picture doesn't look a patch on previous showings where it's technically and artistically inferior (for whatever reasons).

 

[Dot50Cal]

mckmas8808, do you have a link to that high quality MGS4-TGS-2006 trailer? I'd love to take a closer look... I only have a version of around 40 MB or so... thanks!

Everyones still waiting for that unfortunately. The only good one out there is the Gamespot one, which is around 400MB but its a 480x270 quicktime. The IGN version is the same thing, but the idiots resized it to 640x360 making it look horrible.

 

[Nesh]

Ok, I've fixed them. They're pics from this thread anyhow.
They're not blurry - they're pixelated!

Quite probably. I wasn't saying MGS4 was downgraded, or even had bad texturing overall. I was just commenting on the linked to images that do show really bad quality aspects. I'm just commenting on the content people bring to the table. When you get some people looking at pictures with hideous texturing saying they can't see anything wrong with that picture, I do this...

If they say they don't see anything wrong with the game as a whole, because there's much better examples out there, that's a different story.

To clarify, looking at this...

we can't say the game has a whole has been downgraded, but we can say that picture doesn't look a patch on previous showings where it's technically and artistically inferior (for whatever reasons).

I see a mistake in that pic. Nothing to do anything with the visuals. But having your fingers on that part of the gun is a WONDERFUL idea if you want to burn them

 

[Eagle-Vision]

You do realize that the direct feed video of every MGS4 video was better quality than the off hand camera stuff right?

Well, duh. But we don't have a direct feed video from the TGS trailer, so stop using screencaps from the off hand camera one.

But whatever your right. All the textures suck. Lighting sucks and looks PS2 quailty right?

Sometimes it does

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/a...4-guns-of-the-patriots--20060922045630092.jpg

Also I can find textures that look low quality to in games like Gears of War, but do you see me crying about it? No because the overall game looks amazing. Again why act like you can't see these pictures?

http://i12.tinypic.com/48x92fb.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4332/pdvd023xz6.jpg

Again, why are you using small screencaps from the off hand camera, of textures that are far away from the camera?

Also, practically all surfaces seem to be using just one texture layer which is another reason why it looks so flat. I haven't seen a source of dynamic lighting either, there's not even muzzle flash.

 

[Jesus2006]

Also, practically all surfaces seem to be using just one texture layer which is another reason why it looks so flat. I haven't seen a source of dynamic lighting either, there's not even muzzle flash.

Ever thought of that this game is far from finished and the final polish / shading might be enabled in the future? Maybe that trailer version was polished out already, just for the sake of it being a trailer.
Have a look at other games where exactly this happened in the past, like Motorstorm, Lair or Resistance or Heavnely Sword...

 

[Phil]

Everyones still waiting for that unfortunately. The only good one out there is the Gamespot one, which is around 400MB but its a 480x270 quicktime. The IGN version is the same thing, but the idiots resized it to 640x360 making it look horrible.

http://trailers.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/t_mgs4_tgs06_screen_h264.wmv

I'm not sure how good this one is, but it's 140MB and is apparently HD, but from a cam filming a screen. Maybe this will be a better indication of the game? Download is at 70% over here...

 

[Phil]

I see a mistake in that pic. Nothing to do anything with the visuals. But having your fingers on that part of the gun is a WONDERFUL idea if you want to burn them

It might be a while since I fired a rifle last, but AFAIK, the rifles we use here have something around the front of the gun to shield off the heat, so that you can still hold it without getting your fingers burned...

EDIT: He's holding the gun correctly. You can see this in the movie I linked above....


Shifty;
Thanks for the reply. Will reply later when I have some more time!

 

[mrboo]

http://trailers.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/t_mgs4_tgs06_screen_h264.wmv

I'm not sure how good this one is, but it's 140MB and is apparently HD, but from a cam filming a screen. Maybe this will be a better indication of the game? Download is at 70% over here...

Thats the one i have, best one i have seen

 

[pakotlar]

i think the game looks like crap. hope kojima doesn't f this up, mgs2 was a masterpiece.