Matrix Revolutions blows - SPOILER WARNING

[fbg1]

Re: ***POSSIBLE SPOILER***

What do you guys think of my theory?

A lot of people seem to share it. The only problem I have with it is that Neo (and Morpheus, and Trinity, etc.) were able to sense that they were in the Matrix in the first movie. If Zion truly is in a secondary Matrix, why can't Neo or Morpheus or Trinity sense it? Why does the second Matrix fool them while the first did not?

 

[Vince]

The Prophecy is the vision, not Morpheus.

Thats what I ment, I stated it oddly. Sorry.

Sophistry. Neo was not wavering or in doubt for 99% of that film. The fights were simply a result of the two brothers having written themselves into a corner with Neo's ascension to the status of the One at the first film's end. It's the Superman problem for the writer: you've made your character all-powerful, so how do you now write confrontations that challenge him without nullifying his powers. Moreover, Neo, at least while in the Matrix, doesn't have an Achilles Heel, no weakness to some form of virtual Kryptonite.

See, I disagree. I think this is more your [negative] sentiment than any tangible aspect. IIRC, the Brothers had the second parts written prior to the first's theatrical release.

Also, this entire film had the rebellion and Morphious's grip on the situation and prophesy wavering. Did we even see the same film - perhaps you walked out on this one too? Morphius's mental ability and rationality was questioned from the first 10 minutes when Link was questioning him and he had to go out of his way to gain his trust. Not to mention the implications of what Cpt. Lock said. This is a direct polar opposite to the first films's portrayal of Morphius.

Not to forget the fact that Neo's now faced with not being the only 'One.' But just the last in a long list of fallen 'Ones.' Or his struggling throught the multiple fight sequences that question his supreme power, aswell as Smith's new threat. The last 1% as you stated was just the clincher that articluated this trend for those that couldn't already see it.

He took out a few 'upgraded' agents, failed to beat the Oracle's guardian, fled from the multiple Smiths, and did win against the Merovingian's guards. Whoop-dee-doo. His greatest Messianic manifestation of power was restoring Trinity to life. As a warrior, Neo has been pussified by the Wachowskis so they can have their protracted, illogical fight scenes. And I knew this would happen before I saw the film.

John, with an attitude like that, no wonder you see this in the light you do. I hate Hue Grant. His next movie is going to suck. I wonder how much I'm going to critique and enjoy his next film

Yea, you're probably right. Those trucks exploding were probably a blue screen with the real Keanu on wires. That was the real Neo spinning like a top through the air with the pole in his hand. And the Agent smashing the hood of the car was just a really fat stuntman who was born with a low polygon count in his left shoulder and arm.

So, you noticed the low polygon count on left shoulder and arm and remembered it to post this? John, with all due respect... get help bud.

We can sit here and critique anything - this doesn't change the fact that it's damn good and fooled a hell of alot of people. We all knows it's fake, but it looks damn real to those of us who don't sit 2 feet from the screen looking for a not perfectly round shoulder - but thats just my impression.

 

[crypto1300]

Re: ***POSSIBLE SPOILER***

What do you guys think of my theory?

A lot of people seem to share it. The only problem I have with it is that Neo (and Morpheus, and Trinity, etc.) were able to sense that they were in the Matrix in the first movie. If Zion truly is in a secondary Matrix, why can't Neo or Morpheus or Trinity sense it? Why does the second Matrix fool them while the first did not?

Because only Neo is capable of sensing it.

 

[V3]

Yeah, Gollum looks great, of course, since we do not know what Gollums are supposed to look like, it's harder for us to register improper lighting or movements.

Gollum from Two Tower ? That Gollum could have been composited better into the scene. But beside that I think the animation is well done.

But I like Dobby better.

 

[DemoCoder]

The Wachowski brothers have already said the "Matrix within a Matrix" concept isn't in the script. (it would be too obvious and kinda lame) Next theory.


Besides, it would invalidate everything the Architect had said. The whole point of the Prophecy and The One is that they could not construct a Matrix which 100% of the people would accept as reality. 1% of them reject it to some extent, and some "wake up". Thus, the Oracle and the Architect came up with a solution to control that 1% who escape to the real world and can't be assimilated: Offer them a phony prophecy and rebel city to collect all of them into one place. When they become too numerous, destroy it. Since the One is capable of greatly screwing over the Matrix (and seeing through any illusions they create), he is given a voluntary choice: Voluntarily give up his powers or his life (the Oracle says "programs" and have to be deleted are given two choices: return to the matrix and hide, or accept "exile" and return to the Source) and in return, the Architect will let him choose a handful of humans to continue the rebel movement.

If he decides to return to the Matrix (in this case, to save Trinity), the Matrix will eventually crash, and everyone plugged into it will die.

There has to be a difference explaination for Neo's powers in the real world. I'm favoring the cyborg theory: Neo isn't just a regular human anymore. First, all throughout the movie, they speak of Neo as being enhanced (Architect: "despite your alterations, you remain, irrevocably human"). Persphone says to Neo "He was like you once" (Merovingian). Therefore, it is possible that the implants that Neo has in his brain are somehow different than other people's, perhaps he is much more Borgified, with a wireless LAN connection to the machine network. Anyway, Smith, Merovingian, the Architect, and Oracle all refer to Neo as some sort of program or code.

If you rewatch the major speeches in the film, you will find that alot more is being said. Also, look up the literary history of the Merovingian.

 

[John Reynolds]

So, you noticed the low polygon count on left shoulder and arm and remembered it to post this? John, with all due respect... get help bud.

If in the next Star Wars film a TIE Fighter flew across the screen with a really bad matte outline around it, would noticing that and then commenting on it make you a candidate for psychological help?

 

[fbg1]

Re: ***POSSIBLE SPOILER***

Because only Neo is capable of sensing it.

Still, why can't Neo sense that Zion is another Matrix?

 

[RussSchultz]

Re: ***POSSIBLE SPOILER***

3. This also is where the 3rd installment gets its sub-title (Revolutions). I believe the "revolution" will be revealed that Neo & company are still plugged into the Matrix.

What do you guys think of my theory?

Ummm, revelations are revealed. Revolutions are either spun, or fought.

In that respect, I think your theory wouldn't stand up amongst people who are literate.

 

[fbg1]

There has to be a difference explaination for Neo's powers in the real world. I'm favoring the cyborg theory: Neo isn't just a regular human anymore.

As I mentioned before, this aspect of the film is very reminiscent of the movie Lawnmower Man. For those who haven't seen it, a psychiatrist attempts to cure autism in his yard helper through a combination of drug and VR therapy. An accidental overdose of drugs and VR training morphs the lawnmower man's mind into a superintelligent one, and he becomes a Deus Ex Machina in the VR world, similar to Neo. But it's not long before the changes in his mind manifest themselves in the real world as well, and his powers transfer from VR to real and back as if there was no boundry. Perhaps something similar is happening to Neo. His use of his Matrix superpowers is altering his mind in such a way that he is beginning to be able to transfer his powers from virtual world to real world as if there is no boundary. He is the next stage in human evolution, enabled by machines, if you will...

 

[Joe DeFuria]

His use of his Matrix superpowers is altering his mind in such a way that he is beginning to be able to transfer his powers from virtual world to real world as if there is no boundary. He is the next stage in human evolution, enabled by machines, if you will...

Agreed.

Think about the concept of E.S.P., for example, where people ARE said to be able to "bend spoons", and physically move or effect objects "with their mind", can see the future, etc.

A very simplistic arguement goes: "The typical person only uses 20% of their brain capacity...but some people can use more of it and do these other things."

In this sense, The Matrix can be seen as more or less a training ground for using that extra brain power. It provides a construct for the "normal" human mind to be able to grasp the real possibility that he CAN do superhuman things. Then, when you exercise that type of mind use enough, you learn how to apply it to the "real world."

 

[Natoma]

I think someone mentioned this earlier, so I'll elaborate on it, with regard to The Merovingian.

The Merovingians were the line of kings who were supposedly the descendants of the christ. The protectors of the holy grail as it were.

There are many permutations to follow with regard to how this fits into the film. It does offer some tantalizing possibilities.

One such possibility is that Merovingian was a previous "The One." Maybe he was even the very first "The One," or simply a program designed to emulate the essence of the first "The One" in order to understand the anomaly better. I'm trying to figure out how the real world descriptions of the Merovingian fits into the film, and that was the first possibility that came to mind.

 

[RussSchultz]

The Merovingians were the line of kings who were supposedly the descendants of the christ. The protectors of the holy grail as it were.

There are many permutations to follow with regard to how this fits into the film...One such possibility is that Merovingian was a previous "The One." Maybe he was even the very first "The One," or simply a program designed to emulate the essence of the first "The One" in order to understand the anomaly better. I'm trying to figure out how the real world descriptions of the Merovingian fits into the film, and that was the first possibility that came to mind.

The first one that comes to my mind was giving a character who was guarding the solution to their problem in the story(the keymaker) a name that was literarily sly. It doesn't really add to the story, except the character is named appropriately according to our real world myths.

 

[Natoma]

Your explanation of his character would certainly fulfill half of the duality of the purpose/existence of The Merovingian. That they were the protectors of the Holy Grail, or in this case, the holy grail is the Keymaker. But it doesn't fulfill the lineage portion of The Merovingian. If they were truly the descendants of the christ, would that not lead to the possibility that Merovingian in the film was a prior "One," or a program meant to emulate one of the prior anomalies in order for the machines to understand it better?

 

[RussSchultz]

I think you're trying to find meaning in a cigar, personally.

 

[Natoma]

I don't think so. Names in both films have been extremely important.

Neo
Trinity
Morpheus
Nebuchadnezzar
The Oracle

They all play a particular function in the first film, and their mythological explanations/stories most certainly add credence to their roles. In the second film we get

Niobe
Persephone
Merovingian

among other names. From the first film, I'd say that these names, among others, are most certainly there for a reason.

 

[RussSchultz]

I don't think so. Names in both films have been extremely important.
...
Trinity
...

She's da bomb?

 

[John Reynolds]

I don't think so. Names in both films have been extremely important.
...
Trinity
...

She's da bomb?

Persephone pumped my 'nads' harder.

 

[RussSchultz]

Ahhh, you missed my bad atomic bomb history pun. Or maybe you just didn't laugh. (Trinity site was the place out in the middle of new mexico where they set off the first A-Bombs in WW2)

And Jada Pinkett-Smith was the hottest person in that film. Hands down.

 

[John Reynolds]

Ahhh, you missed my bad atomic bomb history pun. Or maybe you just didn't laugh. (Trinity site was the place out in the middle of new mexico where they set off the first A-Bombs in WW2)

And Jada Pinkett-Smith was the hottest person in that film. Hands down.

No, I got the joke. Just was so bad I wasn't going to respond to it.

Jada just looks too pissed off all the time for my tastes.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

You guys aren't really being fair to Natoma, as he can't really follow this last bit of discussion on hot babes...come to think of it, I'm not sure when he talks about the "orgy" scene, he's not referring to the whorde of Smith Agents jumping on top of Neo.



Ba-da-doom!

(Just a joke Natoma...if you're really uncomfortable with it, I'll delete...)