Mass Effect 3

[Laa-Yosh]

You think that's a thing other franchises LACK? WTF? (If you mean closure slightly less literal then no way in hell can you say that something like BG:ToB didn't provide closure.)

The emphasis is on the personalized part. Other games have done almost everything else with the storytelling, team customization, multiple endings and so on, but none can offer it all in one package of three consecutive games that build on each other and then it actually ends as well.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I would say the only thing that would prevent more developers from structuring a series with persistent qualities as Mass Effect did is money. It's a very expensive endeavour to plan and execute this type of series.

Yes, there are plot problems and some shoddy writing in Mass Effect. That's pretty much every game. Despite it's faults, I'd still say it is one of the better stories. Deus Ex: HR was another good one recently, but that was a one-off game. Still, it borrowed a lot from Mass Effect.

 

[Riddlewire]

I haven't played this game, but I couldn't help but notice that people are complaining about the ending.

Have they not played Far Cry 2?

 

[MfA]

The emphasis is on the personalized part. Other games have done almost everything else with the storytelling, team customization, multiple endings and so on, but none can offer it all in one package of three consecutive games that build on each other and then it actually ends as well.

Baldur's Gate.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Baldur's Gate.

Baldur's Gate 2 offered a character import feature, but I would say it is not comparable. You basically keep your stats, and that's it. You do not keep your choices, especially not through three games. The D&D gold box games did the same thing.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yeah, exactly, and although the game did offer a few elements depending on the player's choice of who to recruit into the party and what moral stance to take, it was still not as strong as in Mass Effect.

More importantly, it was also a Bioware game. Basically a predecessor of Mass Effect in many ways (same goes for KOTOR and Jade Empire)

 

[scooby_dooby]

I would say the only thing that would prevent more developers from structuring a series with persistent qualities as Mass Effect did is money. It's a very expensive endeavour to plan and execute this type of series.

Exactly. The only reason no one would look at ME and say "lets do that" is cause it's a damn scary thing to try and pull off, not cause it didn't push the medium forward.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I've done some reading on the Bioware forums and there is fairly convincing sounding speculation going on with cuts being made to the original story and I'd sure would have liked to have seen them..

Spoiler

Normandy coming in evading fire and shooting Harbinger giving Shepard the chance to reach the conduit and rescuing the squad mates, which would explain the fact that they are on board Normandy during the end video. There are even voice files for Joker saying
"I'm late to the party but the girls are coming home with me" and "That was for Cortez" Take Earth back trailer also had Normandy playing part in the battle. In the game it only provided targeting support for those missiles, basically the version we got had Normandy being a no show...

There was one side quest where you get an upgrade to the Normandy, protecting the engineering section from core venting (or something like that) if being hit in combat situations, but that also ended up being a complete no show Also there is at least some speculation that the Citadel defense force, which you could upgrade in many ways was originally going to play some part in a battle for Citadel. In the final game The Citadel defence force didn't really mean anything. I dunno if there is more stuff coming

 

[MfA]

More importantly, it was also a Bioware game. Basically a predecessor of Mass Effect in many ways (same goes for KOTOR and Jade Empire)

Basically a game from a time when they still had decent writers/writing ... such a shame the ME1 lead was reassigned to SW:ToR during ME2 and left before ME3. It could have been a contender.

Ah well lesson learned, Bioware games are to be bought when they get to bargain bin prices from now on (and I'm skipping DA2 entirely).

 

[Ghostz]

Mass Effect's character import feature is an interesting dead end just like all that facial capture system in LA Noire was an interesting dead end. The difference, one game has tangibly added to the "games as art" discourse even through it was a dead end. Anyway, Mass Effect being the "greatest games eva" is still dangerous hyperbole which is really just my point and you'll forget all about it when games that have better narratives get released later this year even.

 

[dragonelite]

Dam they got 30k plus donated to child play.
Just to make a statement that it isn't about the money.
They just want a better ending no extra shitty plot holes/deus ex machina or more questions just answers. Hell maybe a simple Text and picture epilogue would be enough for me.

 

[MfA]

Spoiler

As long as the catalyst is real in the sense that it is what it says it is there can be no good ending ... it's always going to be shitty Diablos Ex Machina without player agency.

Just make the end be an indoctrination attempt and make the McGuffin weaken the reapers so we can have an epic space battle with all our allies, hell make the catalyst a being, a liar but still an actual being, residing in harbinger and let us go in there to rip it's head off ... now there would be some catharsis.

BTW, I think it has very little chance of succeeding unless Bioware basically hang Mac Walters out to dry and get someone else to write the ending ... now of course if Bioware is smart they will realise they owe us more allegiance than their writer, but that isn't how things usually work out.

 

[dragonelite]

Spoiler

As long as the catalyst is real in the sense that it is what it says it is there can be no good ending ... it's always going to be shitty Diablos Ex Machina without player agency.

Just make the end be an indoctrination attempt and make the McGuffin weaken the reapers so we can have an epic space battle with all our allies, hell make the catalyst a being, a liar but still an actual being, residing in harbinger and let us go in there to rip it's head off ... now there would be some catharsis.

BTW, I think it has very little chance of succeeding unless Bioware basically hang Mac Walters out to dry and get someone else to write the ending ... now of course if Bioware is smart they will realise they owe us more allegiance than their writer, but that isn't how things usually work out.

from what i have seen the freaking fans have already written the story.
I see this as their second chance if they fuck this up the will loose a lot of fans.

I want too believe in the fans ending.
But i find it more logical that bioware fucked it up.
Only way for them to show me they had this planned is if they will inform us that within 2~3 weeks the final ending is available

 

[Ghostz]

Cliches are cliches for a reason.

 

[MfA]

Yep, Simon Fenney's signature is appropriate to ME.

 

[bkilian]

Nobody is going to look at Mass Effect and say, "yea, lets do that", "lets do what they're doing, lets get 'inspired' by what they're doing". Mass Effect is an interesting dead end which will add nothing to the discourse of "games as art". Calling it the greatest games ever is infact hyperbole.

Wow, you really are trolling for it, aren't you?
I would say that a lot of studios are looking at Mass Effect and saying "Yeah, let's _try_ to do that". But even if they weren't, that's irrelevant to your (deliberate?) misinterpretation of scott's original statement: "the Mass Effect saga is easily the best series of games I've ever played". It's a personal statement and says nothing about the game's supposed contribution to the "art" of gaming, although Bioware has done more to push the concept of gaming as interactive art than pretty much anyone. They basically _invented_ the moral system now used by many games, not just RPGs.

Don't dismiss a game just because it isn't Gears of War (which, by the way, has added just as much to the discourse of "games as art" as Mass Effect)

 

[MfA]

They invented an alignment system slightly appropriate for Jedis ... and then went on to utterly abuse it in a setting which would be better off without it :/

 

[Scott_Arm]

They invented an alignment system slightly appropriate for Jedis ... and then went on to utterly abuse it in a setting which would be better off without it :/

Abused how? Why would it be better off without it? I'd argue the game would have not have been nearly as interesting without allowing the player to decide how to treat other characters in that universe.

 

[MfA]

I can play an utter bastard or an angel and treat other characters accordingly in a lot of CRPGs ... a binary alignment system which punishes you for not sticking to extremes is unnecessary for that.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I can play an utter bastard or an angel and treat other characters accordingly in a lot of CRPGs ... a binary alignment system which punishes you for not sticking to extremes is unnecessary for that.

Do you get punished for not sticking to extremes in Mass Effect? I skipped interrupts of both types and I did a mix of paragon and renegade options within conversations based on how I felt about what was being said. At no point did it seem extreme and at no point did I feel punished. I naturally leaned more towards "paragon" because I tend to not be a combative person, but I never felt like the renegade options I chose were "evil" or necessarily indicative of a binary morality.

Many games offer some kind of moral choice, but conversations tend to be a long list of questions followed by a single choice by the player. Mass Effect tends to have less interrogative conversation style that is more of a back and forth between the player and npc, and allows the player choose their tone at each step. Mass Effect 3 did get rid of the Middle "neutral" option.