Lips

[obonicus]

IIRC, Rockband is over 3 million sold.

It certainly didn't do poorly, I'm sure MTV/Harmonix/EA are happy. But I have a feeling (having trouble finding reliable data, so I'm piecing together what I can remember/find while trying to avoid quoting vgchartz) that GH3 did about that well on practically each of the platforms it was on, except for the PS3. And I believe 3 was the best-selling game in the franchise so far.

And this despite the fact that Rock Band got much better reviews.

 

[patsu]

I think song selections has something to do with it and the ability to get new songs.

Aren't they the same problem ? SingStar PS3 has limited song selection right now (so people are less likely to buy the songs or even the entire game). Some people end up buying the PS2 version.

 

[AntShaw]

It certainly didn't do poorly, I'm sure MTV/Harmonix/EA are happy. But I have a feeling (having trouble finding reliable data, so I'm piecing together what I can remember/find while trying to avoid quoting vgchartz) that GH3 did about that well on practically each of the platforms it was on, except for the PS3. And I believe 3 was the best-selling game in the franchise so far.

And this despite the fact that Rock Band got much better reviews.

At a $170 price point, RB slayed GH. Add in the fact that RB is over 17 mil downloads for DLC and RB is easily a bigger hit then GH3. Granted it's a new IP, and is a 'band' aspect, so I wouldn't really match them up with each other.

RB has established itself as a platform. Harmonix took all the lessons learned from their GH experience and put it toward making a fun game, and making it the biggest microtransaction game to date. GH has a long way to go to make it viable in the continuous revenue of DLC.

I'm curious on the Lips pricing, but as long as it is FUN, this will easily sell gangbusters on the 360.

 

[AntShaw]

Aren't they the same problem ? SingStar PS3 has limited song selection right now (so people are less likely to buy the songs or even the entire game). Some people end up buying the PS2 version.

I think it's a mix of weak track selection, 30 songs on disc, and lack of multiplayer that has lead to lackluster NA sales.

 

[AzBat]

North America's culture is just not as intranced with the whole karoke thing as Japan or Europe. Rock Band has helped a little, but I still think singing is basically only going to succeed here in that genre (band/rock). Hopefully Rock Band and others will provide support for the new microphone. It might help give Lips some sales.

Tommy McClain

 

[assen]

my point wasnt that they failed because they're copies of sony games but because they're super casual

Microsoft has by far the most casual lineup in downloadable games. Uno is one of the highest sellers on XBLA.

and even if the 360 is sub $200 why would casuals pick it up when they already have a wii? oh right they wont

Because it has obviously superior versions of Madden/FIFA, Guitar Hero, and now karaoke games. 360 is not going to win over the "do you have that Fitness thingie I saw on Oprah" crowd, but any competent salesman should have no problem selling it over the Wii to someone whose PS2 just died of old age and he decided to get the kids a new console for Christmas. Lips is just another step in that direction. No single game will accomplish that goal, but they need all of them.

 

[patsu]

I think it's a mix of weak track selection, 30 songs on disc, and lack of multiplayer that has lead to lackluster NA sales.

SingStar has multiplayer (battle mode). You can upload your performance to YouTube too. My wife loves the game. The only problem is the song library. We are willing to buy more, but the library is too limited right now.

North America's culture is just not as intranced with the whole karoke thing as Japan or Europe. Rock Band has helped a little, but I still think singing is basically only going to succeed here in that genre (band/rock). Hopefully Rock Band and others will provide support for the new microphone. It might help give Lips some sales.

Ha ha... yes, most of my friends are afraid of karaoke. But they should be fine in a party.

 

[obonicus]

At a $170 price point, RB slayed GH.

That's ridiculous. No, it didn't. At most you can say that the 3+ million copies just about equal the 10+ million copies GH3 sold, revenue-wise. So just like how you can't really say RB was a failure, you certainly can't say RB blew GH3 away.

Add in the fact that RB is over 17 mil downloads for DLC and RB is easily a bigger hit then GH3. Granted it's a new IP, and is a 'band' aspect, so I wouldn't really match them up with each other.

There hasn't been an equal amount of DLC released. Rock Band did the right thing by releasing tons of DLC, but GH3's offerings were really limited. Harmonix made a lot of money off RB, no doubt, but again, I don't think Rock Band stole much of GH3's mindshare -- again, GH3 sold MORE than 2.

We're not dealing with your average slightly savvy videogame fan, who actually checks reviews and finds out that Rock Band has a lot more promise than GH3.

I'm curious on the Lips pricing, but as long as it is FUN, this will easily sell gangbusters on the 360.

To go after the demographic MS is seeking, I think they have an uphill battle, no matter how good the game is. Karaoke games haven't really been successful in NA, and MS hasn't been that successful at marketing games towards casual audiences, especially when it's not even clear what that audience is, exactly. And in Europe Sony has a stronger presence. None of this is set in stone, of course, maybe MS produce something so amazing that it creates a huge market, but I'm skeptical.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1. The 360 doesn't really have a user base that is drawn towards these types of games. So unless this brings a lot of new stuff to the table it's not going to draw consumers attention

And how is MS going to attract a user base that enjoys these types of games if they don't offer these types of games? It's a chicken and egg situation, except that in this case you need the egg to hatch the chickens from. MS doesn't want to be isolated to 'hard-core gamers' but wants everyone with an interest in gaming using their platform. If they want to make stronger headway out of the NA market, they need to diversify, which is what this is.

2. I don't believe this game will offer anything new to the table

With one major exception - it's on MS's platform. So if you're looking for a singing game on a next-gen shooter platform, perhaps the shooting for the guy and the singing for the missus, the choice is now a $500 PS3 or a $300 XB360. Without this game the choice is a $500 PS3 full stop.

EDIT: I've noticed a trend with M$ in which they identify a market trend (in this case music/karaoke games) and then try to buy their way into it and 9/10 times it ends in failure. You'd think they would learn but no they don't.

I've noticed a trend with all markets, and that's when someone has a success, other companies try to emulate. It tends to be known as 'jumping on the bandwagon'. You can point to any of these console companies and see where they're copying ideas from each other. I will agree that MS's business model stretching back down the years does seem to be more reaction than innovation, but it's done them well. And seriously, what do you think they should do? Just accept defeat and stop trying?

'Looks like people want diverse singy, party games, which we haven't got yet. May as well just chuck in the towel' ?

As for the actual game, postioning sounds weak - LIPS is such a lame name! - and I don't expect MS to support it much beyond a cursory offering, because they haven't done, unless they're serious in their talk about chasing new markets. I feel this is a make-or-break title, not so much because of what it is, but in how MS support it and the idea of diversifying their catalogue through first-party creations to pursue broader markets.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Is the Lips xbox exclusive, or will it be multiplatform?

 

[obonicus]

Is the Lips xbox exclusive, or will it be multiplatform?

Exclusive, it's an MGS-published game.

 

[mister slim]

There hasn't been an equal amount of DLC released. Rock Band did the right thing by releasing tons of DLC, but GH3's offerings were really limited. Harmonix made a lot of money off RB, no doubt, but again, I don't think Rock Band stole much of GH3's mindshare -- again, GH3 sold MORE than 2.

That was mostly due to selling on four platforms. Per platform sales are about the same for Guitar Hero II and III.

 

[obonicus]

That was mostly due to selling on four platforms. Per platform sales are about the same for Guitar Hero II and III.

And? Multi-platform release only helped them, but unless you're suggesting that most people bought a copy of the game on more than one system they own it's still true that more people bought GH3 than GH2.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

've noticed a trend with all markets, and that's when someone has a success, other companies try to emulate. It tends to be known as 'jumping on the bandwagon'. You can point to any of these console companies and see where they're copying ideas from each other. I will agree that MS's business model stretching back down the years does seem to be more reaction than innovation, but it's done them well. And seriously, what do you think they should do? Just accept defeat and stop trying?

If MS wants long term success in this market they really need to switch their business model from reaction to innovation otherwise they're always going to be a few steps behind. MS is almost imperialistic in the way they approach markets and I don't think this approach will continue to serve them as well as it has in the past.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I've noticed a trend with all markets, and that's when someone has a success, other companies try to emulate. It tends to be known as 'jumping on the bandwagon'.

This is a reality in all real world markets aswell, if one firm makes a succesfull product that has a lot of potential, other companies will emulate it. Happends in all industries. Its one of the basic microeconomic theorems if i remember correctly.

 

[Tchock]

This is actually quite exciting to me for no specific reason whatsoever.

Wondering how different versions of MP3s are dealt with... though.

 

[thambos]

never really that into karaoke, but the appeal of using almost any song is pretty cool.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

never really that into karaoke, but the appeal of using almost any song is pretty cool.

Does it provide the lyrics or videos, or would it just be like singing to a song in your car?

 

[Chisholm]

Does it provide the lyrics or videos, or would it just be like singing to a song in your car?

Apparently, it provides both. There seems to be some sort of lyrics database that might be able to check the song's ID and download the lyrics. I don't know exactly how they're going to synch the lyrics to the song, but I guess there will be some frequency analysis going on. In any case, if they get this right -if you could add a video of your own that would be even better- I'm sold.

For those songs, you have what they call virtual music videos; I guess you could download more of those to have more variety.

Cheers - Chisholm

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They have said they have a system for lyrics, but they haven't explained it yet, at least in anything I've read. The only way I can think is a huge database, of which there exist plenty I'm sure. Frequency analysis I doubt. Perhaps, assuming the vocals are dead-centre of a stereo wave, they could isolate the vocals and pitch analysis that. Extracting the vocal pitch from a whole musical track would be a phenomenal achievement IMO. And if that's possible, then the creation of downloadable tracks for Singstar or other titles could be entirely automated!