Kutaragi Ken: "PS3's GPU isn't an upgraded PC GPU"

[Mythos]

What's the possiblity of RSX being a bastard child from Sony, Toshiba, Nvidia IP?

Let's say that the scenerio of what Toshiba offered was either not up to par (expense, performace, etc..) or would be a timely piece of work. Could the work spill over to the RSX?

Thoughts?

 

[Farid]

Re: Kutaragi Ken: "PS3's GPU isn't an upgraded PC GPU&a

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread

What about reading the thread first and then ask a question?

Did I in the thread explain, explicitly, what I meant by Custom/S/H? No, but it would have been funny to have read through the whole 3 pages thread and find no answer.

but what's your definition of 'slightly', 'heavily' and 'completely' custom?

What I would consider a slightly modified GPU is a G70/80 (same number of pipes/ALUs) + FlexIO - Video Processor.

A Heavily modified GPU would be a G70/80 but with notable changes (Not the same # of ALUs/Pipes + FlexIO) but using the same architecture for the ALUs/Pipes.

A Custom GPU would be a GPU with, either a totally different low level architecture, or at least a heavily modified G70/80 + hard wired support for things such as high-level surfaces and faceting/tessellation.

 

[Qroach]

Well all I can say is that there's 34 people at this point that are are very, very gullable.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

However, when Xbox Live materialized, Sony hastily threw out a network adapter that let gamers play each other online.

If they never intended online, why'd they provide fora network adaptor upgrade option when designing PS2?

I think it more likely that they had their visionary dreams (which KK is prone to do) and then come crashing to reality. Broadband's only taking off now, and 5 years ago wasn't common. KK's hopes of broadband networks didn't come true that time, so he's trying again.

Every console since the NES (except the Xbox) had a built in expansion port to allow capabilities to be added to the console later on. Sony could have added anything they wanted to that port. It's not like it was specifically designed for a modem.

Some could argue that the PS2 was equipped to go online from day one because it had USB ports where you could plug in DSL and Cable modems. But that would be stretching it a bit.

 

[jvd]

we have a plasma which i belive is a 40 inch (may be 50 i dunno ) but its not hooked up to anything right now . we have to move the 50 inch projection tv out of the living room and put the plasma in (used to be in my apartment ) its a 1080i from panisonic . Then we have a toshiba crt that i believe is 720p but it might only be 480p . Dont have a model number on it , my sister bought it for college .

 

[one]

First of all, 'Graphics Synthesizer' is the Toshiba GPU.

It seems the architectural outlines of EE and GS were designed by Sony. The implementation of EE was done by Toshiba, while the implementation of GS was done by Sony and Altius Solutions.

 

[Carl B]

Some could argue that the PS2 was equipped to go online from day one because it had USB ports where you could plug in DSL and Cable modems. But that would be stretching it a bit.

Yes, that would be stretching it. Rather, I rely on all the reports and interviews before PS2's launch and during it's development when Sony would speak of the PS2's 'strong' online component. (and this is before XBox even existed in the media)

So, yes - it was meant to be online all along - Microsoft just did it better.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Every console since the NES (except the Xbox) had a built in expansion port to allow capabilities to be added to the console later on. Sony could have added anything they wanted to that port. It's not like it was specifically designed for a modem.

True.

 

[a688]

Some could argue that the PS2 was equipped to go online from day one because it had USB ports where you could plug in DSL and Cable modems. But that would be stretching it a bit.

Yes, that would be stretching it. Rather, I rely on all the reports and interviews before PS2's launch and during it's development when Sony would speak of the PS2's 'strong' online component. (and this is before XBox even existed in the media)

So, yes - it was meant to be online all along; Microsoft got the idea from Sony if anything, and not the other way around - they just did it better.

Microsoft competes against more than just Sony in the consumer space and Sony never invented playing games online even on a console. So to say MS got the idea from Sony is pretty hard to swallow. Granted it might have confirmed their plans but I doubt they got their idea of online gaming from Sony. If I'm not mistaken PCs have been playing games online for quite some time and MS makes Windows. Bam, MS got the idea of xbox live from computers. Those bastards.

 

[one]

So, yes - it was meant to be online all along; Microsoft got the idea from Sony if anything, and not the other way around - they just did it better.

Well, Microsoft got the idea from SEGA Dreamcast in which Microsoft helped with WebTV I guess...

 

[Carl B]

First of all, 'Graphics Synthesizer' is the Toshiba GPU.

It seems the architectural outlines of EE and GS were designed by Sony. The implementation of EE was done by Toshiba, while the implementation of GS was done by Sony and Altius Solutions.

I apologize then if I was mistaken on that front. I know Toshiba was heavily involved in the manufacture of the GS, and I guess I have mistakenly increased their role to design assistance as well; but it is true that everything I have searched just now seems to indicate Sony designed the GS and Toshiba was brought in for EE co-development.

 

[London Geezer]

So, yes - it was meant to be online all along; Microsoft got the idea from Sony if anything, and not the other way around - they just did it better.

Well, Microsoft got the idea from SEGA Dreamcast in which Microsoft helped with WebTV I guess...

Wow, i wonder where Sega got the idea to put Saturn online then!!! Must be the Commodore 64!!

 

[blakjedi]

So, yes - it was meant to be online all along; Microsoft got the idea from Sony if anything, and not the other way around - they just did it better.

Errr... Thats a bit of a stretch seeing as how both Saturn and particularly Dreamcast had online gaming long before Sony. DC's online was 56K out the box with an upgrade possible to Broadband. Considering also that many members of Sega of Americas management team went to MS, I would say the use and creation of online and particularly, Broadband as a substantive part of console gaming, had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Sony.

 

[Carl B]

Microsoft competes against more than just Sony in the consumer space and Sony never invented playing games online even on a console. So to say MS got the idea from Sony is pretty hard to swallow. Granted it might have confirmed their plans but I doubt they got their idea of online gaming from Sony. If I'm not mistaken PCs have been playing games online for quite some time and MS makes Windows. Bam, MS got the idea of xbox live from computers. Those bastards.

Whoa! Calm down there...

No I don't actually think Microsoft got the idea from Sony, but in the context of my rebutal to the idea that Sony got the idea from Microsoft, I just decided to throw in a reversal - but not stated as fact, stated hypothetically with the 'if anything' in there.

Believe me I'm not so deluded as to believe Sony brought the notion of online gaming to the console market. 8)

I'm just saying nor were they so ignorant as to not think of it themselves.

@blakjedi: This post applies to you as well. Everyone chiiillll.....

Plus, edited my post above to remove the controversial component.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Some could argue that the PS2 was equipped to go online from day one because it had USB ports where you could plug in DSL and Cable modems. But that would be stretching it a bit.

Yes, that would be stretching it. Rather, I rely on all the reports and interviews before PS2's launch and during it's development when Sony would speak of the PS2's 'strong' online component. (and this is before XBox even existed in the media)

So, yes - it was meant to be online all along - Microsoft just did it better.

"Meant to be"? No it was meant to be a retaliation to SegaNet to steal momentum from Sega. I read a whole article on Sony's online plans and it sounded a lot like Xbox Live. However, when the Dreamcast (and SegaNet) died, so did Sony's online plans. Xbox Live forced them to resurrect it albeit in a less potent form. The N64 came with an expansion port at the bottom and later an addition in Japan called the 64DD was released that allowed it to play optical media. Could I then make the argument that the N64 was "meant to be" a CD-based system all along? Surely not.

But to get back on topic, the whole issue revolves around people taking Ken Kutaragi's word without the mandatory grain of salt. I'd trust what Nvidia says because their job isn't to sell PS3s.

 

[Carl B]

"Meant to be"? No it was meant to be a retaliation to SegaNet to steal momentum from Sega. I read a whole article on Sony's online plans and it sounded a lot like Xbox Live. However, when the Dreamcast (and SegaNet) died, so did Sony's online plans. Xbox Live forced them to resurrect it albeit in a less potent form. The N64 came with an expansion port at the bottom and later an addition in Japan called the 64DD was released that allowed it to play optical media. Could I then make the argument that the N64 was "meant to be" a CD-based system all along? Surely not.

But to get back on topic, the whole issue revolves around people taking Ken Kutaragi's word without the mandatory grain of salt. I'd trust what Nvidia says because their job isn't to sell PS3s.

That is fine, we will agree to interpret Sony's original online plans differently, as long as we both acknowledge the same set of facts.

Anyway everyone here (for the most part) takes both Kutagari and Allard statements with plenty of salt, no need to worry about that.

 

[one]

The N64 came with an expansion port at the bottom and later an addition in Japan called the 64DD was released that allowed it to play optical media. Could I then make the argument that the N64 was "meant to be" a CD-based system all along? Surely not.

Surely not, because 64DD is a magnetic disk drive, not optical media

 

[Dave Baumann]

Re: Kutaragi Ken: "PS3's GPU isn't an upgraded PC GPU&a

A Heavily modified GPU would be a G70/80 but with notable changes (Not the same # of ALUs/Pipes + FlexIO) but using the same architecture for the ALUs/Pipes.

Mmmm, heres a question that might warrent some digging - with the ROP's running inline with the memory speeds and generally scaling with bandwidth I wonder if RSX has 16 ROPs or 8.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

"Meant to be"? No it was meant to be a retaliation to SegaNet to steal momentum from Sega. I read a whole article on Sony's online plans and it sounded a lot like Xbox Live. However, when the Dreamcast (and SegaNet) died, so did Sony's online plans. Xbox Live forced them to resurrect it albeit in a less potent form. The N64 came with an expansion port at the bottom and later an addition in Japan called the 64DD was released that allowed it to play optical media. Could I then make the argument that the N64 was "meant to be" a CD-based system all along? Surely not.

But to get back on topic, the whole issue revolves around people taking Ken Kutaragi's word without the mandatory grain of salt. I'd trust what Nvidia says because their job isn't to sell PS3s.

That is fine, we will agree to interpret Sony's original online plans differently, as long as we both acknowledge the same set of facts.

Anyway everyone here (for the most part) takes both Kutagari and Allard statements with plenty of salt, no need to worry about that.

That's cool. I don't care what Allard says anyways, but I'd take ATi's words over Microsoft. It's no contest. ATi speaks from a developer perspective and Microsoft speaks to sell 360's. The same with Sony and Nvidia. When Kutaragi says something that contradicts what Nvidia says, then it's no contest.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

The N64 came with an expansion port at the bottom and later an addition in Japan called the 64DD was released that allowed it to play optical media. Could I then make the argument that the N64 was "meant to be" a CD-based system all along? Surely not.

Surely not, because 64DD is a magnetic disk drive, not optical media

I thought it was optical media in a cartridge case? I'm pretty sure it was.