Kutaragi Ken: "PS3's GPU isn't an upgraded PC GPU"

[Farid]

developers like the guys from killzone saying how they want to see how the software runs on the cell and rsx as they are diffrent from the dev kits they have .

You're, as usual, mixing everything up.
As I said all what the developers of launch games need is target performance datas, the complete, or almost, docs for the GPU, and compatible shader compilers. That's all.

And Guerilla, the Killzone developers, are not aiming for a launch period release, BTW.

esp considering that ati has nothing to do with risk production .

Says who, again? You?
You're saying that Ati has nothing to do with the production of their prototypes? Please... Don't tell me you think Ati after finishing the design work on the R500 handed the IP over to MS and leaved it at that?

Where are they getting the chips to send to developers in june ?

That's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is where did you hear that MS was already in full production of the R500.

Sure now i know how i will answer each and every one of your posts . Except some how when I said no with no facts to support my claims your going to jump on me

You said that increasing the number of Vertex/Pixel Shader on a part was a "slight" modification. No, it not a trivial thing to do.

no just no

There

No the RSX isn't a part destined to be on an embedded system?

Quit with the smartass replies jvd, you're not good at it.

 

[jvd]

You're, as usual, mixing everything up.
As I said all what the developers of launch games need is target performance datas, the complete, or almost, docs for the GPU, and compatible shader compilers. That's all.

And Guerilla, the Killzone developers, are not aiming for a launch period release, BTW.

developers need time to figure out any quirks the hardware mighth ave that u just can't get from data sheets

Says who, again? You?
You're saying that Ati has nothing to do with the production of their prototypes? Please... Don't tell me you think Ati after finishing the design work on the R500 handed the IP over to MS and leaved it at that?

The xenos is not ati's chip. They simply did the work. They may have been involved with the prototypes but its not for ati to do risk production on the chips . Ati is not involved in that part of the equation

That's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is where did you hear that MS was already in full production of the R500.

I didn't say they are in full production because that can change at any point . I do know that they are already producing the gpus and are starting to ship out beta kits with the gpu in them . Some devs like rare have already gotten them . How i know these things well its a combination of reading the web and talking to people .

You said that increasing the number of Vertex/Pixel Shader on a part was a "slight" modification. No, it not a trivial thing to do.

and I say it is . Of course what you think is slight may be what i think is massive and vice versa . However i think its one of the slight modifications they could do to it along with adding or decreasing pipelines

No the RSX isn't a part destined to be on an embedded system?

Quit with the smartass replies jvd, you're not good at it.

I'm great at smart ass remarks . Because I'm smart and have an ass and its actually pretty big but kinda flat from what i'm told

 

[Farid]

developers need time to figure out any quirks the hardware mighth ave that u just can't get from data sheets

Launch titles, jvd, launch titles.

The xenos is not ati's chip. They simply did the work. They may have been involved with the prototypes but its not for ati to do risk production on the chips .

You're doing semantics. Of course, Ati isn't footing the bill for the risk production.
When I said Ati is still doing risk production, I wasn't implying they're the one in charge of the production. What I meant was that the chip is still in a prototype state. Only the Ati booth, at E3, had a working Xenos prototype? Why couldn't they have at least 20 (hell, 5) working IC for the MS booths if they (Ati/MS) weren't out of the risk production period?

Is the code written on the devkit incompatible with the final hardware? Or is the chip still in a prototype state, and therefore couldn't be produce in mass quantity for now?

Some devs like rare have already gotten them . How i know these things well its a combination of reading the web and talking to people .

So, we have to believe you, that's it?

I'm great at smart ass remarks . Because I'm smart and have an ass and its actually pretty big but kinda flat from what i'm told

Concerning that point, I have no problem to believe you.

 

[BOOMEXPLODE]

It's definitely not the exact same chip, because G70 is supposed to be 110nm and RSX is 90nm.

 

[jvd]

Launch titles, jvd, launch titles.

wait ...... wait for it ..... . no , nope , no

What I meant was that the chip is still in a prototype state. Only the Ati booth, at E3, had a working Xenos prototype? Why couldn't they have at least 20 (hell, 5) working IC for the MS booths if they (Ati/MS) weren't out of the risk production period?

the chips were entering production at the start of may . There is a lag time between when the chips are made and when ms has them

Not only that but thier prioity seems to be getting the chips to the developers

So, we have to believe you, that's it?

No you can go read too .

http://games.kikizo.com/news/200505/159.asp

Concerning that point, I have no problem to believe you.

u sure , i can take a pic of it next to a game cube and then you can see how big my ass is next to the next generation systems

 

[Farid]

No you can go read too .

http://games.kikizo.com/news/200505/159.asp

I already read that. I was talking about the part about you talking to certain people.

BTW, on a side note, Kikizo is as "good" as Spong when it comes to the reliability.

u sure , i can take a pic of it next to a game cube and then you can see how big my ass is next to the next generation systems

Don't do anything stupid, we all could go blind for a week if you did that.

 

[Xmas]

Obviously it's neither the same chip nor a completely different architecture. Whether you call the changes slight or massive is up to anyone's preference. Is NV30 to NV35 a massive change?

 

[jvd]

I already read that. I was talking about the part about you talking to certain people.

BTW, on a side note, Kikizo is as "good" as Spong when it comes to the reliability.

eh it fits well with the claims that the devs will get beta kits in june . I would think rare would get them first . It also explains why it looked so much better to ign behind closed doors . Most likely was running on beta dev kits (dunno if thats true )

Anyway I'm allowed to talk to people .

Don't do anything stupid, we all could go blind for a week if you did that.

Not only that but l-b and natoma will use it for thier wall paper . They have been trying to get a piece of it for years !

 

[Natoma]

Oh many hurry up and post that jvd !!!!

 

[Acert93]

Obviously it's neither the same chip nor a completely different architecture. Whether you call the changes slight or massive is up to anyone's preference. Is NV30 to NV35 a massive change?

Good point Xmas, that is kind of what I was thinking. Do you have any thoughts on Ken and Jen-Hsun's contrasting words on architecture though? One says it is completely different arch, the other says it is a different implimentation. Are you able to shed any light on how they may be looking at it differently?

 

[Natoma]

Oh many hurry up and post that jvd !!!!

jvd abusing his mod powers.

*barf

 

[jvd]

bah what are u talking about ?

 

[rabidrabbit]

I vote for G70 being a slightly modified RSX.

 

[Xmas]

Good point Xmas, that is kind of what I was thinking. Do you have any thoughts on Ken and Jen-Hsun's contrasting words on architecture though? One says it is completely different arch, the other says it is a different implimentation. Are you able to shed any light on how they may be looking at it differently?

Marketing. Sony wants you to believe "We have this incredible technology, and you'll find it exclusively in PS3! We're years ahead!", while NVidia says "this is our next gen tech, buy our cards and you get realism as demonstrated on PS3 on your PC!". And Jen-Hsun is also saying "Look, investors, we're smart! Small investment, big bucks!"

 

[Acert93]

Marketing.

I had thought about that, but "follow the money" was going to be my last resort You know, exhaust all your options first kind of thing. Both are technological visionaries, yet both are even better businessmen. So the simple answer, that it is marketing, is the best answer. I could see how KK could honestly say a lightly modded G70 in the PS3 is a totally different architecture because of the setting (PS3 vs. PC) and how it connects (FlexIO, access to XDR and GDDR3). And I can see how Jen-Hsun could argue that it is the next GeForce architecture, implimented differently, even if it is radically different if it is using a similar featureset and IPs that are significant to the new GF series. So they could be telling the truth, at least from their perspective (I am stretching it a bit, but it is possible)--and how ultimately how that truth is spun in a way to power marketing. And marketing is never spoken in plain language!

Unless one is fibbing a little and it is still marketing

 

[_phil_]

So, we have to believe you, that's it?

No you can go read too .
http://games.kikizo.com/news/200505/159.asp

Well ,Shacknews had the exact opposit impressions .

http://www.shacknews.com/extras/e3_2005/051905_perfectdarkzero_imprs.x

(even if i personnaly think it wil be a good game)

Edit . there's no voting option that include the possibility that nvidia bent (if a little ) its design road map ,following their talks with sony.
So it's a possibly a slightly modified Gpu with some custom approach .

 

[jvd]

yea and ign is saying that it looks awsome . Who to believe ?

 

[rabidrabbit]

What looks impressive? RSX?? What's the topic here ??? :?

 

[jvd]

What looks impressive? RSX?? What's the topic here ??? :?

the topic is rsx which got side tracked into the xenos which got side tracked into the pdz which got side tracked into you asking what the topic is

 

[_phil_]

yea and ign is saying that it looks awsome . Who to believe ?

only myself if you ask !