Ken Kutaragi Interview by Hiroshige Goto (PC Wach)

[Titanio]

I don't think anyone really knows what the percentage is, or how many numbers, and with the new PS2 there's no way of counting. Live! needs an account, where a new PS2 can go online without anyone knowing about it.

Well we can take the number of network adapter sales as a minimum. The slim PS2 obviously does muddy the numbers, but I've seen figures for the numbers of online users thrown about in various interviews.

But it is another interesting way to look at it. With Xbox, online really wasn't standard. You have to pay x dollars per year to play online. That's as optional as anything. Obviously the HD is free to use in every Xbox, but its most compelling use by devs is often tied to online games.

edit - Some googling suggests that 590k network adaptors were sold by the end of 2002. The network adaptor only launched in Europe in 2003. If I find more up to date figures I'll post them.

edit 2 - there's an article summing up PS2 online by end of 2003 here:
http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2003/3/12-39

By February of 2004, Sony was claiming 1.5m online users, which at the time was twice Xbox's figure at the time.

By the end of 2004, they were claiming 2.4m PS2s were connected. This figure can't be including all slim PS2 sales till the end of 04, since it'd be much higher if that were the case

 

[Sean*O]

KK loves to sprinkle the fairy dust.

I wonder if he is the guy who used to spike the kool aid ad parties?

 

[ralexand]

Out of curiosity, has sony mentioned at all about being able to connect to windows machines. Seems like their goal is for the psp and cell storage devices to be the conduit along with the internet to get all this media to the ps3.

 

[Titanio]

Out of curiosity, has sony mentioned at all about being able to connect to windows machines. Seems like their goal is for the psp and cell storage devices? to be the conduit along with the internet to get all this media to the ps3?

That's a good question, and gets to the root of one of the earlier arguments being had here. They've said nothing yet, but one would hope that Sony's openess to wide range of removeable media formats in PS3 is an indicator of where things might go in terms of "network storage".

The ideal, in the absence of a HD, would be if PS3 views all storage, removeable or otherwise, local or remote, windows or cell - whatever - just as storage. Transparently.

 

[ralexand]

Out of curiosity, has sony mentioned at all about being able to connect to windows machines. Seems like their goal is for the psp and cell storage devices? to be the conduit along with the internet to get all this media to the ps3?

That's a good question, and gets to the root of one of the earlier arguments being had here. They've said nothing yet, but one would hope that Sony's openess to wide range of removeable media formats in PS3 is an indicator of where things might go in terms of "network storage".

The ideal, in the absence of a HD, would be if PS3 views all storage, removeable or otherwise, local or remote, windows or cell - whatever - just as storage. Transparently.

That's true but if their goal is to replace the pc then maybe they don't want to support pcs as a network storage device similar to the way that they aren't supporting the ipod to transfer music from AFAIK.

 

[Titanio]

That's true but if their goal is to replace the pc then maybe they don't want to support pcs as a network storage device similar to the way that they aren't supporting the ipod to transfer music from AFAIK.

That's a possibility. Not sure about ipods etc. I don't think they've discussed that either yet.

Getting back to the impact of including hardware as standard or not including hardware as standard..asides from PS2 having a bigger online audience, according to Gamespot's database, Xbox only has a few more online titles than PS2 (170 to 155), despite online not being standard on PS2, and despite the software/services infrastructure being inferior (and i think that was the defining factor in distinguishing xbox's online character, not standard hardware) . PS2 was also the system with the MMORPG, despite no standard online or hard disk! With volumes as large as those on Playstation, the lack of hardware being included as standard is mitigated. I believe PS2's HD would have seen as much support as its equally optional online functionality if Sony hadn't killed it with the slim PS2 (you can't support something if it's not possible, optionally or otherwise, for some of your userbase to use it, in this case all your future new users - it'd be a PR nightmare).

So would I like to see a HD as standard? Yes. Would the lack of one impact dev options/support or games? Tougher to say.

 

[ralexand]

That's true but if their goal is to replace the pc then maybe they don't want to support pcs as a network storage device similar to the way that they aren't supporting the ipod to transfer music from AFAIK.

That's a possibility. Not sure about ipods etc. I don't think they've discussed that either yet.

Getting back to the impact of including hardware as standard or not including hardware as standard..asides from PS2 having a bigger online audience, according to Gamespot's database, Xbox only has a few more online titles than PS2 (170 to 155), despite online not being standard on PS2, and despite the software/services infrastructure being inferior (and i think that was the defining factor in distinguishing xbox's online character, not standard hardware) . PS2 was also the system with the MMORPG, despite no standard online or hard disk! With volumes as large as those on Playstation, the lack of hardware being included as standard is mitigated. I believe PS2's HD would have seen as much support as its equally optional online functionality if Sony hadn't killed it with the slim PS2 (you can't support something if it's not possibly, optionally or otherwise, for some of your userbase to use it - it'd be a PR nightmare).

So would I like to see a HD as standard? Yes. Would the lack of one impact dev options/support or games? Tougher to say.

I think the biggest factor in support of these things is the console makers themselves. If they say we're not going to ship your game unless it supports this feature then what's a developer to do. Of course having a standard device in the machine helps you make such demands from developers.

 

[one]

That's true but if their goal is to replace the pc then maybe they don't want to support pcs as a network storage device similar to the way that they aren't supporting the ipod to transfer music from AFAIK.

Isn't it reverse? IMHO it's whether iTunes is released for PS3 Linux or not.

 

[Gollum]

Well we can take the number of network adapter sales as a minimum.

Errr, as a minimum? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't maximum be more logical? Anyway, there really aren't any accurate ways of comparing the online userbase for Xbox and PS2 IMO.

Live is a subscrition service, you've got to pay to play. So you can be pretty sure that those who subscribe are actually using the service. Those who only get online for a single game or to try it out only to drop offline after that, probably never subscribed after their free month ended!

An adapter on the other hand probably has a much bigger dropout rate. Plenty people buy this stuff for a specific game or because its a novelty, then barely end up using it. I'd be carefull about translating hardware sales to actual online userbase.

 

[Titanio]

Well we can take the number of network adapter sales as a minimum.

Errr, as a minimum? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't maximum be more logical?

I doubt people bought network adaptors not to go online. It's a good bet that anyone who bought one went on with one.

And yes, it's a minimum, because every slim PS2 has a network adaptor built in. So beyond "guaranteed interest" network adaptor sales, other slim PS2 users may be going online.

An adapter on the other hand probably has a much bigger dropout rate. Plenty people buy this stuff for a specific game or because its a novelty, then barely end up using it. I'd be carefull about translating hardware sales to actual online userbase.

If you want to assume that, you can assume some people also subscribe to services and then don't use them. I know I don't play Live very much at all - but I'm counted as a user by MS (this is a time issue for me, more than anything else unfortunately ) .

I think someone who has bought a network adaptor is likely to be as interested in online, and looking out for new online games to purchase in order to make use of their investment, as much as a Live subscriber. They're similar investments.

 

[scooby_dooby]

This is actually the very reason that I think a media center concept executed completely independently of the the PC might very well be a success; because if you provide consumers with an easy to understand interface the adoption rate might well be higher on the console with the features in-built than on the console that requires some form of networking to a PC in order to gain it's functionality. I know that the majority of my friends are essentially clueless when it comes to networking anything, and they definitely represent the majority. If the PS3 can bring it to a level along the lines of the PSP's interface, then I think we might have a winner with the moms and dads.

Well, the main problem I see with that is where will you get the media from? It's not like PS3 will have it's own P2P network and it definately won't let you rip DVD. The PC is the source for all these media files, which is why it's so important.

Titanio - i could not disagree more with KK. His argument is that since they can't make a HD large enough to hold lots of video, there's no point in including it at all.

I think networking eliminates the need for LARGE harddrive, but it doesn't remove the need for a HD completely, that's just a cop out, there's a ton of other reasons to include a harddrive that has nothing to do with storing video.

As far as networking goes, I'm sure MS will make it is easy to do as hunmanely possible, it is their OS after all. I don't see many people, who own a computer having problems, basically you just select a foldere you would like to share, give it a share name, then call that sharename@ipadress form the console. I'm sure they could make a GUI that makes this process extremely easy.[/b]

 

[ralexand]

That's true but if their goal is to replace the pc then maybe they don't want to support pcs as a network storage device similar to the way that they aren't supporting the ipod to transfer music from AFAIK.

Isn't it reverse? IMHO it's whether iTunes is released for PS3 Linux or not.

But every ps3 won't have Linux. Is there currently a linux version of itunes.

 

[Carl B]

This is actually the very reason that I think a media center concept executed completely independently of the the PC might very well be a success; because if you provide consumers with an easy to understand interface the adoption rate might well be higher on the console with the features in-built than on the console that requires some form of networking to a PC in order to gain it's functionality. I know that the majority of my friends are essentially clueless when it comes to networking anything, and they definitely represent the majority. If the PS3 can bring it to a level along the lines of the PSP's interface, then I think we might have a winner with the moms and dads.

Well, the main problem I see with that is where will you get the media from? It's not like PS3 will have it's own P2P network and it definately won't let you rip DVD. The PC is the source for all these media files, which is why it's so important.

Well I really really don't think that Sony (or Microsoft) has any intention on letting you easily make use of P2P networks (and/or their spoils) on either of these consoles. Sony's intent is probably for you to put movies from your own DVD's, music from your own Cd's, MP3's (AAC, whatever..) from a legitimate service, or stuff downloaded directly to the PS3 through the PS3's movie, music, or other content services. Also Sony indicated in some quote somewhere the ability to support items 'like the iPod,' so this is where I see things going. Whether we'll see a iTunes for PS3 or something else remains to be seen. Remember though that this device will be one of the first to be compatible with iTunes from a hardware perspective, so there is precedent: Link

Certainly neither of these console makers is trying to provide you with the ideal platform to watch all your pirated warez Scooby.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I was starting to believe this last week, but reading this interview makes me believe that when KK says "Cell Storage" he is literally talking about a Cell based Network Attached Storage device. A Gigabit network is fast enough to stream anything you could want, including levels and HD video. Still not an option for virtual memory due to latency more than anything else. But I don't like games that page from the harddrive all the time anyway! And when you've got a PS3 AND an NAS with an embedded Cell CPU in the mix you start to see what Sony is talking about with regards to the distributed computing. Both are always on and can use all those idle flops for whatever, resampling video offline to HD resolution is just one suggestion they've made.

 

[ralexand]

No scans of magazines

Not even scans of magazines that don't even exist anymore?

 

[ralexand]

I was starting to believe this last week, but reading this interview makes me believe that when KK says "Cell Storage" he is literally talking about a Cell based Network Attached Storage device. A Gigabit network is fast enough to stream anything you could want, including levels and HD video. Still not an option for virtual memory due to latency more than anything else. But I don't like games that page from the harddrive all the time anyway! And when you've got a PS3 AND an NAS with an embedded Cell CPU in the mix you start to see what Sony is talking about with regards to the distributed computing. Both are always on and can use all those idle flops for whatever, resampling video offline to HD resolution is just one suggestion they've made.

I can definitely see the selling a massive storage unit that acts as an object along with cell based ps3s that way sony can deliver the entire end user experience from mobile(psp) to server(cell storage) to client(ps3). It will be interesting to see if they can pull it off.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I was starting to believe this last week, but reading this interview makes me believe that when KK says "Cell Storage" he is literally talking about a Cell based Network Attached Storage device. A Gigabit network is fast enough to stream anything you could want, including levels and HD video. Still not an option for virtual memory due to latency more than anything else. But I don't like games that page from the harddrive all the time anyway! And when you've got a PS3 AND an NAS with an embedded Cell CPU in the mix you start to see what Sony is talking about with regards to the distributed computing. Both are always on and can use all those idle flops for whatever, resampling video offline to HD resolution is just one suggestion they've made.

I can definitely see the selling a massive storage unit that acts as an object along with cell based ps3s that way sony can deliver the entire end user experience from mobile(psp) to server(cell storage) to client(ps3). It will be interesting to see if they can pull it off.

OMG...NAS (Network Attached Storage)....if thats the case i'll be sOOOoOO fricken happy. I've been meaning to get one but if this is the case...then wow...there pretty expensive though. But I can see this as being very useful since the NAS device is always on (separate power source). This is probably the case...since he keeps refering to Cell Storage and I keep wondering what that means......

 

[Pozer]

I was starting to believe this last week, but reading this interview makes me believe that when KK says "Cell Storage" he is literally talking about a Cell based Network Attached Storage device. A Gigabit network is fast enough to stream anything you could want, including levels and HD video. Still not an option for virtual memory due to latency more than anything else. But I don't like games that page from the harddrive all the time anyway! And when you've got a PS3 AND an NAS with an embedded Cell CPU in the mix you start to see what Sony is talking about with regards to the distributed computing. Both are always on and can use all those idle flops for whatever, resampling video offline to HD resolution is just one suggestion they've made.

Again, if it's not the lowest common denominator game code won't be written to take advantage of it. The beuwolf cluster idea for a gaming console is intriguing for things I can't even imagine yet, but hardly a KK brainchild unless he has very specific plan. He always delivers a great console but his claims of world changing technology are usually just hot air. Maybe using that to simulate areas of world you aren't playing at that time, like another neighborhood in GTA or the geneology of a village in a vast RPG. SO when you would return to that village you would be presented a more realistic outcome of events or something.

 

[koldfuzion1]

Brad Grenz,

Noob question here, but what is a Network Attached Storage device (NAS)? I'm pretty curious about this whole cell storage thing. As I noted above with a net present value of around $1 billion to include an HDD over the life of the console, I would think if they are tinkering with the idea of dropping it and replacing it with some remote storage idea, they have some money to play around with if they drop the HDD. I also pointed out this seems to have some issues, but I'm wondering how exactly remote storage c/would work. Obviously we are all just speculating here until Sony comes out with some definitive statements on what this hub is going to look like, I'm just wondering from someone who has a little familiarity with network design, remote storage costs and the like just what may be possible/feasible if you had at least a couple hundred million to play with, expect at least 10 million machines to be hooked up to your network within about a 24 months period, and further assume about 1/2 of those are on a decent broadband connection (Cable/DSL).

 

[BlueTsunami]

Brad Grenz,

Noob question here, but what is a Network Attached Storage device (NAS)? I'm pretty curious about this whole cell storage thing. As I noted above with a net present value of around $1 billion to include an HDD over the life of the console, I would think if they are tinkering with the idea of dropping it and replacing it with some remote storage idea, they have some money to play around with if they drop the HDD. I also pointed out this seems to have some issues, but I'm wondering how exactly remote storage c/would work. Obviously we are all just speculating here until Sony comes out with some definitive statements on what this hub is going to look like, I'm just wondering from someone who has a little familiarity with network design, remote storage costs and the like just what may be possible/feasible if you had at least a couple hundred million to play with, expect at least 10 million machines to be hooked up to your network within about a 24 months period, and further assume about 1/2 of those are on a decent broadband connection (Cable/DSL).

Well a NAS (Network Attached Storage) is a HDD that is External (has a shell around the HDD), connects to its own power source (which means its continuisly on and online) and finally...it connects to your home network (or any network through a physical patch cable). What this means is you can share out the drive to anyone...or set up security where you can only have authenticated users accessing it. Its a very handy device, the separate power source is wonderful...because my main network storage is coming from my main PC....goes without saying..with a laptop, that can be a pain, since I have to have my PC on all the time just to access the information.

Finally...if what the previous posters said pans out.....you'll be able to access this storage from anywhere in the world (Just like the explanationo about EyeToy2). This may pan out to being able to watch Movies stored on your NAS device on your PSP anywhere in the world (where theres a wireless connection). All speculation...but sounds very nice!