Ken Kutaragi Interview by Hiroshige Goto (PC Wach)

[Titanio]

He makes it pretty clear why they plan to include linux on the harddrive. I wouldn't expect much in the way of homebrew game development support.

..but you could homebrew games on PS2 linux. In fact IIRC you have almost total access to the metal if you want it.

Considering that IBM and Sony are open-sourcing Cell, considering you can download NVidia tools and Cg for free on PC, I'm not sure why they'd try to close the PS3 Linux environment. In fact, Kutaragi specifically mentions it being "open" and the software "ecosystem" he's discussing won't happen if programmers can't come to the system and use it without SCE licensing and so forth. So I'm pretty sure homebrew game dev will be possible (perhaps with some caveats, of course, like not being able to commercialise any games devved in this way etc.).

edit - he actually addresses this directly:

Just like Apple Computer was open back then, if PLAYSTATION 3 is released and becomes open, an ecosystem will be driven. When it became Macintosh, even though Apple didn't do everything, Adobe came and someone came, the ecosystem took off. PC was like that originally. But they absorbed everything (into MS Windows)... Well, it may be their aesthetic, but it's become uncomprehensible even what an OS is.

Until now, we'd provided libraries and game makers had made things in-house, it's not possible anymore though. To do anything, you need a larger expansion. But it'll turn out like that I think. For example, what surprised us is that an iTunes-syncronization software for PSP was released quickly. If it's evaluated as interesting, various things that run on it appear.

 

[pipo]

(there are also rumours running rampant that X360 devs are being told not to assume the presence of a HDD in X360 - I kind of find that hard to believe, but can any devs here confirm or deny that?)

Old story. Just like the 256 MB ram.

As for the PS3 connecting to a PC HDD. It's possible of course, but it means nothing for devco's when they're making their games...

 

[mckmas8808]

So Sony is going to use Linux to achieve a Minority Report type UI on the PS3.

It's amazing what all vaporware can do.

The creators of the Eyetoy have already said that its possilbe.

The EyeToy PS3 demonstration at the conference showed, among other things, a real use of depth of field. What do you think you could do with that in the future?

Richard: We were just using a regular EyeToy for that demo, and we can already know how far away objects are by how big they are, so we could definitely use that in the future.

Ron: We've already used it in EyeToy: Play 2 with the characters stood on the floating balls.

So do you think it's true Minority Report territory?

Richard: I think we can do what they did in Minority Report, for sure

He said for sure meaning that beyond a shadow of a doubt. So to me I'm already expecting it.

Link http://uk.playstation.com/news/newsStory.jhtml?storyId=106818_en_GB_NEWS&linktype=NSON

And don't forget about what they are already doing with SpyToy.

The new release will allow 'gamers' and other nefarious oddballs at the fringe of society to setup their EyeToy to spy on a designated area. The software can be set to trigger alarms, record video and monitor those entering and leaving a room. Videos taken can be edited as part of the software, snapshots taken and saved to memory card. Lockable profiles and even facial recognition technology will be included, and all in all it sounds like a package the youngsters and those of a low mental age should enjoy enormously... (Jason, yours is pre-ordered).

As well as acting as a real-world spying 'tool', SpyToy will come with a few games of the more traditional, spy-inspired variety, including games using photo fit, satellite tracking, bomb disarming, sky diving and many other pursuits that any would-be 007 might enjoy. All in all, this sounds like just the kind of thing kiddies might like to 'alarm' their bedroom with, alternatively, it could also be used by adults in the bedroom for {HTML "error"}.

And you can watch the video of it here. http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/spytoy/media.html

 

[SanGreal]

He makes it pretty clear why they plan to include linux on the harddrive. I wouldn't expect much in the way of homebrew game development support.

..but you could homebrew games on PS2 linux. In fact IIRC you have almost total access to the metal if you want it.

Really? Didn't know that

 

[RoughneckDRE]

So again, the point boils down to whether developers can assume a HDD is there or not. For some games, it matters (MMORPGs), for many others it does not.

If MORROWIND and Star Wars KOTOR required hard disk (and they aren't MMORPGs) last generation there are going to be games that "require" a hard drive this generation as well.

The developers of those games are the ones Sony is saying "we don't need your titles on our platform".

As a fan of those titles who also likes the GOW and Jak stuff too, I'm a bit ticked off.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I'm talking about connecting to a PC in your HOUSE. Like the PS3 would be in the living room...and my main PC would be in my room. I have a home wireless network setup. Connect my PS3 to my OWN PC in my house and utilize the 250Gigs of HDD space that I have (40Gigs are being taken up, so utilize the rest). Its a good alternative to having no HDD at all....

I think without a doubt, you will be able to do that.

Sony would be dumb not too, as 360 will have be built in sharing, and peole with modded xbox's have been doing that for years now. So I'm sure the PS3 will network to your PC with ease.

It would be cool to create a special PS3 or XBox partition...that has special directory structure specific to each console. The whole Linux deal is pretty cool to, the thing i, this seems like Sony trying to make this into something other than a game console (trying to make a shift into a gameing/PC ). I think there more to the fact that their trying to break away from the console image.....they may be trying to start their own PC architecture.....

 

[Titanio]

It's possible of course, but it means nothing for devco's when they're making their games...

The issues for devs if no HDD are included as standard are this:

1) Static storage can only be assumed to be as big as the minimum memory card size. What will that be?

2) If you're game with downloadable content is multiplatform, and you're providing downloadable content and so forth with microtransactions, then the hard part is already out of the way - you're already creating it for the other platform. So the costs of providing for downloads on another platform (PS3) are really limited to the infrastructural costs for download etc. (assuming Sony doesn't provide services gratis in that area). They'll have to weigh the benefit of the HD-owning market on PS3 against the costs, but given the volumes involved with a platform like Playstation, even when something is optional it's likely still worth it (see: the larger numbers online "optionally" with PS2 versus Xbox with online as standard). I think on either platform the challenge won't be storage anyway - the bigger challenge will be convincing people to hand over cash for such content.

3) If you're a first party dev - well then, you're encouraged to use "optionals" anyway.

If MORROWIND and Star Wars KOTOR required hard disk (and they aren't MMORPGs) last generation there are going to be games that "require" a hard drive this generation as well.

I like how you say "require"..that probably says it all. Such games can be done without a HD (particularly if bigger mem cards are there), I assume, but its presence makes certain things easier.

Would I like a HD as standard? No doubt, I think it should happen. But I don't think the lack of it as standard is the tragedy some may like to paint it as.

 

[_phil_]

He makes it pretty clear why they plan to include linux on the harddrive. I wouldn't expect much in the way of homebrew game development support.

..but you could homebrew games on PS2 linux. In fact IIRC you have almost total access to the metal if you want it.

Really? Didn't know that

http://playstation2-linux.com/

 

[Coola]

How can they even consider the PS3 a Computer Entertainment System without some sort of massive secondary cache.

You know, it's interesting to note that even though online was an optional extra on PS2, ultimately more people went online with their PS2 than Xbox, and that was a bigger audience for devs, even if it wasn't standard. If the same situation existed with HDDs next gen..it's something to ponder.

Live! Was optional on Xbox as well, and yes more people went online with their PS2's but look how many PS2's were sold compared to Xbox's sold. Xbox has a much better ratio.

 

[Titanio]

Live! Was optional on Xbox as well, and yes more people went online with their PS2's but look how many PS2's were sold compared to Xbox's sold. Xbox has a much better ratio.

Ultimately what matters to the devs are the absolute audience figures. If a fraction of one market is larger than the entirity of another, that's still a bigger market for them.

Again though, a HDD would be most welcome, in fact if I were Sony I'd include one as standard.

 

[mckmas8808]

Titanio should get the quote of the day.

Ultimately what matters to the devs are the absolute audience figures. If a fraction of one market is larger than the entirity of another, that's still a bigger market for them.

Well said Titanio well said.

 

[jvd]

Titanio should get the quote of the day.

Ultimately what matters to the devs are the absolute audience figures. If a fraction of one market is larger than the entirity of another, that's still a bigger market for them.

Well said Titanio well said.

which is why its a bad idea for sony not to include a hardrive.

 

[scooby_dooby]

home entertainment or computer entertainment hub, you'd need more space than the 10 or 20GB disc they could provide as standard anyway (and that's exactly the point Kutaragi starts off by making -

That's total nonsense, just a lame excuse. The ONLY thing 20GB would not be good enough for is video. That's it. Everything else it's perfectly sufficient. And video takes too long to transfer over an ethernet cable anyways, it's much much easier to simply stream it. So that argument is ridiculous, the main benefits of a HDD are not video storage, it's being able to install apps, caching for games, better load speeds, more customizable games, downoadable content, and most importantly the widespread support of gamemakers so they can take advantage of the permanent storage, and also create this dowbloadable content.

You know, it's interesting to note that even though online was an optional extra on PS2, ultimately more people went online with their PS2 than Xbox, and that was a bigger audience for devs, even if it wasn't standard. If the same situation existed with HDDs next gen..it's something to ponder.

Well if you look at ratio of online users to units sold about 10% of XBOX were online, vs about 2% of PS3 users. Which is a much fairer comparison if we want to be honest.

I understand your point that 24 million is still greater than 20 , but just look at the support from the XBOX devs' regarding online gaming, vs PS2 games. It's clear that despite the raw numbers, XBOX got much more support from dev's because of it's built-in NIC, and Live service.

The same thing will happen with harddrives, even if a huge percentage of users buy them, which I doubt, the games will never have the level of support from dev's that it would have with an included HD. They can't count on it, and that basically ensures the majority of games will not support it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ultimately what matters to the devs are the absolute audience figures. If a fraction of one market is larger than the entirity of another, that's still a bigger market for them.

If this were true PS2 games would have the same level of online support than XBOX games do. After all, the PS2 has more online users right?

Instead of telling us what Dev's want, just look at the games last generation, the proof is right there. Dev's on the XBOX supported live/online gaming much more than Dev's on the PS2, despite the larger overall size of the PS2 online community.

I think Dev's care about not wasting hours doing things that only 2% of their audience will get to experience. If you'r creating a game for PS2 and only 2% of those users are online, you won't waste development time for a mere 2% of the consumers.

You make a decision based on each platform which features you will support and which you won't. You don't compare raw numbers to another console and then decide to support something that 98% of people on this console can not use.

It's not a matter of raw numbers, it's a matter of the percentage of users on a given platform that will be able to enjoy the feature, and that decides whether it's worth the man hours to create.

 

[mckmas8808]

I have to say again I totally agree with you scooby. Especially here...

The ONLY thing 20GB would not be good enough for is video. That's it. Everything else it's perfectly sufficient. And video takes too long to transfer over an ethernet cable anyways, it's much much easier to simply stream it. So that argument is ridiculous, the main benefits of a HDD are not video storage, it's being able to install apps, caching for games, better load speeds, more customizable games, downoadable content, and most importantly the widespread support of gamemakers so they can take advantage of the permanent storage, and also create this dowbloadable content.

At the end of the day Sony really really really should toss in the HDD standard.

 

[Titanio]

That's total nonsense, just a lame excuse. The ONLY thing 20GB would not be good enough for is video.

But video is pretty much a core element of the home/computer entertainment hub, no? And I'm not sure if 20GB will fit EVERYTHING you download over the course of 5 or 6 years, but how and ever..

And video takes too long to transfer over an ethernet cable anyways, it's much much easier to simply stream it.

Where's the ethernet if it's coming from your local X360 or PS3 HD?

Well if you look at ratio of online users to units sold about 10% of XBOX were online, vs about 2% of PS3 users. Which is a much fairer comparison if we want to be honest.

No it's not. Again, as a publisher you're only concerned about how many people are actually out there that can use what you want to sell. Not the percentages. x% of one userbase doesn't mean much if y% of another still is larger than it.

It's clear that despite the raw numbers, XBOX got much more support from dev's because of it's built-in NIC, and Live service.

Live had more to do with that than the built in hardware.

I agree, ps3 should have a standard HD. But I'm not sure how great the impact the lack of it will have.

 

[Inane_Dork]

I don't think he was saying this will definitely be done, more what could be done.

And it could be. But who knows if that'll happen. It'd be nice if you could point and click with your finger rather than a mouse though If you wanted to move computing to the couch, that's one area that obviously would have to be tackled (a keyboard could work ok from a couch, but a mouse?)

I agree it would be nice. And I agree it could be done.

I'm just recalling that amazing Real Networks- and AOL-powered PS2 online service.

The creators of the Eyetoy have already said that its possilbe.

He said for sure meaning that beyond a shadow of a doubt. So to me I'm already expecting it.

And you can watch the video of it here. http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/spytoy/media.html

A great many things are possible. That does not make them shoo-ins for becoming reality.

 

[scooby_dooby]

But video is pretty much a core element of the home/computer entertainment hub, no? And I'm not sure if 20GB will fit EVERYTHING you download over the course of 5 or 6 years, but how and ever..

...

Where's the ethernet if it's coming from your HD?

Well how will you get those videos on the PS3 HD? Other than ripping DVD's or burnt discs, or capturing TV(won't happen) you're going to have to transfer them from the PC. At least, that's the most practical way by far.

And if you've ever tried to transfer 5GB over an ethernet cable it's not fun times. Much easier to simply stream a 20mb buffer(5-10seconds) and then watch it over the network.

So no, I think video storage is the least important thing for a console. It's not practical anways, and the networking is easier. Only if it had TiVo capabilities would a huge harddrive be necessary.

No it's not. Again, as a publisher you're only concerned about how many people are actually out there that can use what you want to sell. Not the percentages. x% of one userbase doesn't mean much if y% of another still is larger than it.

I disagree. Imagine a scenario where 100% of ConsoleA's users are online, lets say it has only 2million users in total. If you are developing a game for ConsoleA, you would most definately support online as 100% of your audience will want it.

Now imagin consoleB, with 200,000million users, but only 1% of those users are online. Now if you're developing a game for COnsoleB, why would you watse all that time on 1% of the demographic when it could be beter spent adding features that the other 99% would enjoy?

Despite the fact both the systems have the same # of online users, ConsoleA will have online support in nearly every single game, while online support in consoleB would be extremely rare.

it basically comes down to the fact they want the most people on any given system to buy their games. So they will inevitably support the features that MOST people have. It's not relative to other consoels, and raw numbers, but rather the demographics of that SPECIFIC console.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I have to say again I totally agree with you scooby. Especially here....

 

[Carl B]

I have to say again I totally agree with you scooby. Especially here....

I gotta toss some in also....