Jak 2

[Anonymous]

Like seriously, if you want to be an active, informed member of this board, why can't you just suck it up and do some research into past threads instead of making yourself look bad.

Exactly.

I wonder friedsnake is

a) a real ps2 newbie fan
b) current member registered under a new nice to:
b1) troll ps2 and make its fans look bad
b2) long suffering ps2 fans vennting all his hopey hopes of ps2 tech

you are an idiot, so whats the point, lol.

 

[Phil]

IT CANT.

For goddsakes man, people who make a living professionally coding GAMES for the PS2 have said here what I just said (no DoT3, multitexture performance murder), why can't you understand this?

I posted the Socom 2 picture to show you that there is clearly no bumpmapping going on there.

Like seriously, if you want to be an active, informed member of this board, why can't you just suck it up and do some research into past threads instead of making yourself look bad.

No one is arguing that PS2 can do it without any performance hits etc. And people who do and can't back it up with technical reasoning or PROVE, should be at best ignored. Just look at this thread - it's practically ruined because everyone chose to jump on a little word, that might even be correct. Do you have prove that Jak II does not have any bump mapping? Fine, bring it on. If not, why not wait up for the final game to be released or that the guy brings on some factual information that may prove that Naughty Dog indeed pulled it off?

Spouting facts about why PS2 will never do it are simply not wanted, especially if you can't back it up. How could you, anyway? As I already mentioned, vers posted a topic on his achievements and these clearly show that it can be done. It's no game, but he posted some information what the engine can handle. Dunno, it's a little step and it certainyl proves it can be done. Sure we'll probably never see something as in Halo 2 done on PS2, but that wasn't the point either. He mentioned bump mapping and you guys jumped on him without hearing him out.

Besides, you posting a screenshot of SOCOM 2 is hardly supporting evidence on your side. No matter what can be seen in that screen, there is someone outthere that played the game and mentions bump mapping as a feature. He may be wrong, but he may be correct. Why not wait for more information before writing it off that easily?

 

[zurich]

Like seriously, if you want to be an active, informed member of this board, why can't you just suck it up and do some research into past threads instead of making yourself look bad.

Exactly.

I wonder friedsnake is

a) a real ps2 newbie fan
b) current member registered under a new nice to:
b1) troll ps2 and make its fans look bad
b2) long suffering ps2 fans vennting all his hopey hopes of ps2 tech

None of our current members are that clueless :?

 

[notAFanB]

Does friedsnake have ANY idea what he's talking about?

this thread seems pointless, he's just talking crap...

yes, just like naughty dog, konami...

nope there aren't any BM in the screens you posted either. not that I/you could 'really' tell from the type of texturing there. BM is most noticable in motionand even then only with a moving lightsource.

jak2 is inspirated by grand theft auto, there are similar missions, isnt it action for ya?

er that's stretching the linjk a bit far? all games (and most art forms) borrow elements from each other. when these elements are reasonbly similar in principle then we can start doing comparisons. otherwise it makes about as much sense as comparing DOA and JAk because they both feature jumping.

Zurich, yes pc developers are not able to make it, pc developers ate not experienced, thats true....and if you cannot see bump-mappping on that screen, you are blind.

my vision is working fine thanks. btw are you a PC dev? ltho I am confused by your PC dev comments. were they simply there to antagonise Zurich? if so pls refrain.

 

[zurich]

No one is arguing that PS2 can do it without any performance hits etc.

Actually, he was:

yes, it can in software mode without performance hit, ign says bump-mapping + constant 60fps....and i agree after playing the demo, btw socom 2 is gonna have bump-mapping too(even the game looks horrible)

 

[notAFanB]

Phil:

vers posted a topic on his achievements and these clearly show that it can be done. It's no game, but he posted some information what the engine can handle. Dunno, it's a little step and it certainyl proves it can be done. Sure we'll probably never see something as in Halo 2 done on PS2, but that wasn't the point either. He mentioned bump mapping and you guys jumped on him without hearing him out.

actually I thought we were trying to clarify his 'Xbox can dream' statement. which I felt was inaccurate and felt needed some clearing up.

No one is arguing that PS2 can do it without any performance hits etc.

that's true for almost anything tho BM takes up instructions on the DX shaders like anything else, that is is eats up processing which could have gone elsewhere.

 

[chaphack]

Alright alright! you guys win!

PS2, technically written in those speccy sheeties, CAN do DOT3/EM/ENVIRO/POLY/WHATEVER BM at 60fps with full geometry complexity, reactive AI/physics, gracious texturing and some more. It is just not in game yet. It IS coming, somewhere, out there, a great development team is looking into that. Great that Xbox is limited to just 20-30fps with all those ON. Yeay PS2! Its ALL in the software you other cluess developers out there!!!!

pssst...! insider rumored to be either FF12/FAFRACER/KILLZONE/JAX2/SH4/SOCOM2/Tekkan5/etcetc. Its one of them i tell ya, lets wait yeay kay? Its coming.....coming..

 

[notAFanB]

Alright alright! you guys win!

PS2, technically written in those speccy sheeties, CAN do DOT3/EM/ENVIRO/POLY/WHATEVER BM at 60fps with full geometry complexity, reactive AI/physics, gracious texturing and some more. It is just not in game yet. It IS coming, somewhere, out there, a great development team is looking into that. Great that Xbox is limited to just 20-30fps with all those ON. Yeay PS2! Its ALL in the software you other cluess developers out there!!!!

pssst...! insider rumored to be either FF12/FAFRACER/KILLZONE/JAX2/SH4/SOCOM2/Tekkan5/etcetc. Its one of them i tell ya, lets wait yeay kay? Its coming.....coming..

I'd laugh but 'us' guys

 

[chaphack]

'US' as in you know who 'US'

 

[Anonymous]

"actually I thought we were trying to clarify his 'Xbox can dream' statement. which I felt was inaccurate and felt needed some clearing up."

Then prove me wrong and come up with a complex rock solid 60fps game on xbox, there are two candidates - halo 1 - runs at 25fps, and BF - slows down more then often...i wanna see the rock solid 60fps complex games.
[/quote]

 

[Phil]

No one is arguing that PS2 can do it without any performance hits etc.

Actually, he was:

yes, it can in software mode without performance hit, ign says bump-mapping + constant 60fps....and i agree after playing the demo, btw socom 2 is gonna have bump-mapping too(even the game looks horrible)

*sigh*

that was brought up way later in the thread. Anyway, you and I should know better that it can't be done without a performance hit - why not just ignore him? It certainly does not justify claims that BM will *never* be done, especially without prove to back it up.


notAFanB:

actually I thought we were trying to clarify his 'Xbox can dream' statement. which I felt was inaccurate and felt needed some clearing up.

Congrats then, as you guys have ruined the thread in the process. Isn't this subject to be warned? (refering to the warning given in Sonic's thread)

 

[rabidrabbit]

I have a very strong suspicion that friedsnake and chaphack are one and same person.
Do you agree, chap? YA!?

 

[Anonymous]

I have a very strong suspicion that friedsnake and chaphack are one and same person.
Do you agree, chap? YA!?

i am not such an idiot, read his comments.

 

[_phil_]

Teh Evil twins !!!

 

[Paul]

This guy...is he a joke? Maybe he is some vennted up PS2 member, registered under a new nick so as to claim all is holy with PS2? You know, you maketh PS2 fans look bad.

Your just as worse, and infact make Xbox owners such as I look bad in some of the stuff you do.

 

[ChryZ]

In other news, the Jak 2 engine sure looks nice. It'd be nice if ND would license it out to other devs, or they themselves use it for a non-platformer. I kinda/sorta hate the genre, but it would be sweet to see it in an action-type game.

Insomniac got the engine basically for free. I heard, it was a early version and Insomniac forked it up ... for their own purpose. G&C and J&D are build on the same technology, but both have their share of stuff not featured in the other game though. Both companies had a knowledge sharing thing going on, from which both benefited. Buttom line, interested devs give ND a call, ask nicely, build nicely, share nicely .... and capitalize nicely

 

[Deepak]

I have a very strong suspicion that friedsnake and chaphack are one and same person.
Do you agree, chap? YA!?

I have the same feeling....may be he is chap's classmate, who has taken this novel job of overtaking Chap...

CHAP, you have some serious competition...your crown is under threat.

 

[archie4oz]

Insomniac got the engine basically for free. I heard, it was a early version and Insomniac forked it up ... for their own purpose. G&C and J&D are build on the same technology, but both have their share of stuff not featured in the other game though. Both companies had a knowledge sharing thing going on, from which both benefited. Buttom line, interested devs give ND a call, ask nicely, build nicely, share nicely .... and capitalize nicely

I wasn't aware that you get and interface Naughty Dog's J&D "engine" in C++!? They're really close because many members of the staff are friends and have worked at the same companies in the past, but AFAIK, they're not licensing engines or anything like that... :?

 

[ChryZ]

Insomniac got the engine basically for free. I heard, it was a early version and Insomniac forked it up ... for their own purpose. G&C and J&D are build on the same technology, but both have their share of stuff not featured in the other game though. Both companies had a knowledge sharing thing going on, from which both benefited.Buttom line, interested devs give ND a call, ask nicely, build nicely, share nicely .... and capitalize nicely

I wasn't aware that you get and interface Naughty Dog's J&D "engine" in C++!? They're really close because many members of the staff are friends and have worked at the same companies in the past, but AFAIK, they're not licensing engines or anything like that... :?

I've never said, they licence the engine in the traditional way, because to be honest I don't have the full inside scoop. And no, I am sure you will not interface in C++ with that engine, AFAIK it was written with a custom lisp compiler and loads of inline assember, and I am sure Insomniac followed that path too. The bold quoted part I got 3rd hand, the italic one was my educated conclusion/guess, why should they stop with Insomniac? It would be great and interesting to verfiy this, couldn't you drop your friends a mail and clear this up? 2nd hand infos > 3rd hand infos

While on this topic, interesting PDF. Cool are the frame-buffer grabs of R&C, wire frame mode and overdraw mode.

 

[Nick Laslett]

Insomniac got the engine basically for free. I heard, it was a early version and Insomniac forked it up ... for their own purpose. G&C and J&D are build on the same technology, but both have their share of stuff not featured in the other game though. Both companies had a knowledge sharing thing going on, from which both benefited.Buttom line, interested devs give ND a call, ask nicely, build nicely, share nicely .... and capitalize nicely

I wasn't aware that you get and interface Naughty Dog's J&D "engine" in C++!? They're really close because many members of the staff are friends and have worked at the same companies in the past, but AFAIK, they're not licensing engines or anything like that... :?

I've never said, they licence the engine in the traditional way, because to be honest I don't have the full inside scoop. And no, I am sure you will not interface in C++ with that engine, AFAIK it was written with a custom lisp compiler and loads of inline assember, and I am sure Insomniac followed that path too. The bold quoted part I got 3rd hand, the italic one was my educated conclusion/guess, why should they stop with Insomniac? It would be great and interesting to verfiy this, couldn't you drop your friends a mail and clear this up? 2nd hand infos > 3rd hand infos

While on this topic, interesting PDF. Cool are the frame-buffer grabs of R&C, wire frame mode and overdraw mode.

In the Equiplaystation magazine from the Edge team, in the interview with Jason Rubins, he talks about how all the Sony developers share knowledge and technology. He cites Zipper and some of there Internet code as an example as well and the engine sharing with Insomnia. He also says that Insomnia made improvements to the J&D engine which Naughty Dog then incorporated into Jak2. The implication in the interview is that Sony are pretty good at sharing best practice around their development teams. Another piece of code cited was for Prog Scan.