Whats achievable and whats not....

DeanoC said:
Just so its absolutely clear, the main fight sequences seen in the HS E3 trailer (bar a bit of post-processing) are playable in real-time now. When you see the fight in HS, your seeing the actual in-game footage in real-time.

The graphical quality is also likely to go up quite considerable before release...
Thank you! Thankyouthankyouthankyou! It's been SOOO annoying having people dismess HS as 'only 5 frame per seconds. It's not realtime. You won't get that good in realtime.' After you're explanations on its development I could never understand how anyone could doubt the level of improvements we would see. Finally we have it from the horses mouth that HS is 'realtime' as it was always going to be.
 
DeanoC said:
The main combat sequence of HS E3 demo was largely real-time (largely in the sense that we still have slow downs due to unoptimsied code, for example the first time an effect is triggered, we get a stall as something loads. Obviously the final version we have it pre-loaded etc.) ... The army scene was the slow bit.

Just so its absolutely clear, the main fight sequences seen in the HS E3 trailer (bar a bit of post-processing) are playable in real-time now. When you see the fight in HS, your seeing the actual in-game footage in real-time.

The graphical quality is also likely to go up quite considerable before release...

Wow, jeez Deano...your game is going to force me to buy a PS3...damnit!!

The fact that you got the outdoor battle scene running in real time now is awesome, and GFX will be improved!?!?! Amazing work you guys are doing
 
pakpassion said:
Incase you all forgot at X05 Heavenly Sword was also announced for Xbox 360. so its multiplatform.

It looks like everybody but you forgot that one pakpassion. Perhaps you should set us all straight and provide a press release to back that up?
 
Mmmkay said:
It looks like everybody but you forgot that one pakpassion. Perhaps you should set us all straight and provide a press release to back that up?


Indeed...and not the E3 one....

-Josh378
 
OOPS i was mistaking Project Assassin for Heavenly Sword. It was BIA3 and Project Assassins which were announced not Heavenly Sword. sorry.


I then have to edit and say the closeup CGI is not achievable but the Battle screen screenies i see on IGN is easily achievable this gen. It looks like a next gen Jade Empire.
 
DeanoC said:
The main combat sequence of HS E3 demo was largely real-time (largely in the sense that we still have slow downs due to unoptimsied code, for example the first time an effect is triggered, we get a stall as something loads. Obviously the final version we have it pre-loaded etc.) ... The army scene was the slow bit.

Just so its absolutely clear, the main fight sequences seen in the HS E3 trailer (bar a bit of post-processing) are playable in real-time now. When you see the fight in HS, your seeing the actual in-game footage in real-time.

The graphical quality is also likely to go up quite considerable before release...

S.W.E.E.T! Thankyou Deano :)
 
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This scene is easily achievable next gen:

heavenly-sword-20050708103746318.jpg
 
On cinematics vs gameplay in general.

The current gen game I'm currently working on has a number of in game cinemtaics, they use the same models, the same animation system and the same rendering engine as the main game.

And every last one of them looks much more impressive than the gameplay content.

Why because an artist spent the time to place cameras, and add unique subtleties to the animation that we simply cannot match in game. They are canned sequences, you can fix anything that doesn't look right.

All these pretty videos are well and good, but realtime or not you simply cannot compare them to gameplay where cameras can be anywhere and where a limited set of animations has to be made to work for a wide variety of scenarios.
 
Again good to hear DeanoC that HS will look much better when released. I always thought that. I mean why wouldn't? RSX, beefier CELL, more bandwidth, etc. I also expect other PS3 devs games will look better when released too.
 
ERP, well said.

That's what I was struggling to convey.
The "Impressive" videos, are just that. Videos.

Reality tv could be said to suffer from the same deficiencies in comparison to a Hollywood action blockbuster.

The inability to control every aspect of a scene conflicts with the cinematic style that is so popular. It's not that Reality TV doesn’t look as real it's that we cant have the same camera shots angle and conveniently dramatic outcomes without sacrificing the Reality part.(It's Ironic that Reality TV isn’t very "real")

In a game the user need to have a good camera view for controlling the style of game that you are playing, at the expense of a story driven camera.

Character animations will have to account for whatever illogical things a player can do within the game environment- imagine how impressive the KZ video would have been with all of the characters sporadically bunny hopping .

I will reiterate that from a static viewpoint, final generation games will look as good or better than the vids and demos. This will be achieved using alternate techniques to provide the same apparent effects.

But the Illusion won’t holdup well in most games. Some games will be of a genre, which will hide this, better than others.
 
ERP said:
On cinematics vs gameplay in general.

The current gen game I'm currently working on has a number of in game cinemtaics, they use the same models, the same animation system and the same rendering engine as the main game.

And every last one of them looks much more impressive than the gameplay content.

Why because an artist spent the time to place cameras, and add unique subtleties to the animation that we simply cannot match in game. They are canned sequences, you can fix anything that doesn't look right.

All these pretty videos are well and good, but realtime or not you simply cannot compare them to gameplay where cameras can be anywhere and where a limited set of animations has to be made to work for a wide variety of scenarios.

I don't quite remember what you thought of the MGS4 trailer, I thought it was awesome, pretty much the best next gen vid I've seen. There are a lot of elements that you talk about in there, different camera angle etc.., that most likely make things look that much better. However at the beginning there is a good 30sec or so of FPS camera and to me, the game/movie looks just as good. Just wondering if showing that type of camera without tweaking would give the best representation of what the game will look like? Or, because it is still a scripted real time scene it doesn't matter.
 
pakpassion said:
I then have to edit and say the closeup CGI is not achievable but the Battle screen screenies i see on IGN is easily achievable this gen.
IIRC deanoc said at that time, that the only reason they pre-rendered that particular sequence is because they didn't have the facial animation routines ready at that time.
 
Slay said:
IIRC deanoc said at that time, that the only reason they pre-rendered that particular sequence is because they didn't have the facial animation routines ready at that time.

Thanks Slay. Why people have the need to turn down what games won't do (from the E3 videos) is depressing. I think ERP and SirTendeth give an over the top great insight of what is going on in videos and the watcher's mind. Great post guys.
 
I think what makes KZ or motostorm incredible is not only their graphics. As someone pointed out, animation and how objects interact with each other is as important as how things are rendered on screen. The PS3 movies were looking -impossibily- beautiful, because not only the graphics are beautiful, but also they have -almost- excellent animation and natural object interaction.

Take KZ for example. Yes, it has beautiful graphics. But, it has equally well natural motion in almost everything. Every object in the movie moves realistically. When a vehicle is hit with a missle, the way it shatters into pieces and the way each piece falls to ground is exactly what you expect in real life. When the guy on the bridge is hit, instead of falling, his belt is strapped to a piece of metal and he hangs in the air. Again, this is exactly what you expect to happen. These looks really all cool, and makes the scene more real and believable. Unfortunately, these are easy to script as well. But, can they be done in simulation? Even if they can, how feasible it is to define these small details in the scene? Do we have enough ram to store these details (i.e. physically defining the belt of every soldier and every piece of small metals coming from the bridge to simulate a possibility of such interaction)? I am not sure.

I think games will get better and better in each generation. We will see game engines incorporate better lighting techniques. We will see objects in the game rendered with special pixel shaders that simulates the physical charasterictics of the surface and its interaction with the lights. We will see more objects in the scene that interacts with each other. We will see better much AI. With given time, we will see even better graphics than what is shown in these movies. But, I do not think that the amount of interactions in environments will ever be that detailed, at least not in this generation.
 
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Since this is mostly an oppinion thread, I think it would be on topic to say-

IMHO DeanoC and ERP should post more often!





That is all...






Guys i'm not kidding come back and post some more tidbits and insights.
 
LOL, they post plenty I assure you, but only ever in topics that strike their fancy. ;)

The jet-setting life of a developer and all...

(great news by the way Deano!)
 
WTF I refreshed my screen 5 times now and nothin-

Theres two of you for gosh sakes- get to work!

P.S. sorry xbdestroya, as good as your post might be, I need a developer fix.
 
> IMHO DeanoC and ERP should post more often!

Well, do you want them to finish the game in time or not? :p

Hong.
 
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