Is Killzone 2 at 720p the best PS3 can handle?

[Konrad]

Yes, Sony was advertising 1080P a lot but they were wrong. In order to keep up with Xbox360 graphics, they will have to render in general at 720P, "the sweet spot".

Polyphony, Team Ninja and Factor 5 says hi!

 

[Darkon]

Polyphony, Team Ninja and Factor 5 says hi!

Team Ninja ? you sure about that

 

[Rangers]

Polyphony, Team Ninja and Factor 5 says hi!

Lair does not look good imo..Team Ninja idk what game they make but according to the guy above me it's not 1080P, and Polyphony..is GT5 truly 1080P? Are we sure it's not upscaled? I really dont know.

Anyway, there are a few games in 1080P, some sports games come to mind (NBA Street, NBA 2k IIRC), but if you really want to push limits, you'll have to be at 720P.

But hey dont take my word for it..take Sony's, MS's, Bungies, etc etc etc..they're the ones doing 720P almost exclusively..

 

[zed]

Bio Shock in 1920x1200 on your PC or Lord Of The Rings on DVD?

i assume u mean the cgi in lotr, whilst on dvd it maybe stored at 720x480 it was rendered at a far higher res, prolly way more than 1920x1200

 

[Laa-Yosh]

So, 1080P no problem.

1080p possible =/= 1080p no problem.

Live Arcade and PSN titles at 1080p have inferior graphics compared to AAA games. And you don't know what compromises GTHD makes to achieve 1080p.

 

[Konrad]

Lair does not look good imo..

Just because you don't like the artdirection or anything else does not change the fact that its rendered in native 1080p.

Team Ninja idk what game they make but according to the guy above me it's not 1080P

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is running at 1080@60 FPS

and Polyphony..is GT5 truly 1080P? Are we sure it's not upscaled? I really dont know.

Neither do I but from what I know the developers claimed 1080@60 FPS I guess we have to trust them.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

i assume u mean the cgi in lotr, whilst on dvd it maybe stored at 720x480 it was rendered at a far higher res, prolly way more than 1920x1200

No. His point is that resolution alone doesn't mean anything. Higher resolution does not mean better graphics, it may mean better imagine quality, but thats all.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Just because you don't like the artdirection or anything else does not change the fact that its rendered in native 1080p.

According to some devs' comments here, that is not true. Lair is rendered at 960*1080 with 2xAA, then with some trickery the multisample buffer is treated as a full resolution 1920x1080 framebuffer.
The result is what we call undersampling - less then 1 shading sample per pixel, so the engine only has to shade half the pixels. It is quite visible in most screenshots.

And as far as I know Ninja Gaiden is upscaled...

 

[Darkon]

According to some devs' comments here, that is not true. Lair is rendered at 960*1080 with 2xAA, then with some trickery the multisample buffer is treated as a full resolution 1920x1080 framebuffer.
The result is what we call undersampling - less then 1 shading sample per pixel, so the engine only has to shade half the pixels. It is quite visible in most screenshots.

And as far as I know Ninja Gaiden is upscaled...

damn, forgot about that about Lair.

But yeah NGS is upscaled.

 

[Arwin]

And you don't know what compromises GTHD makes to achieve 1080p.

We partly do? I think we are getting different levels of MSAA for the different resolutions in GT5.

And I think that's I think the answer also. As games are made to run in both 1080i/p and 720p, developers can choose a few optimisations for the different resolutions. That's what it will end up being like, and what turns out to be better can differ per TV. Maybe you'll be able to play at 720p with 2x MSAA, or at 1080p with no MSAA. Then depending on your TV, the former or the latter is going to look better. I can personally definitely see how 1080p without MSAA could look great on many 1080p, much better than 720p with 2XMSAA.

I'm sure we'll be getting stuff like that (and occasionally already are). I'm sure we'll see some further developments in this area, as for instance the PS3 isn't even in its 2nd year yet. Infancy. If I look back at how the games looked in the first year of the PS2, oh brother. We've come along way baby.

 

[Neb]

No. His point is that resolution alone doesn't mean anything. Higher resolution does not mean better graphics, it may mean better imagine quality, but thats all.

But higher resolution brings out the details in the graphics (especially bump/normal mapped textures) and therefore the graphics looks better.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Maybe you'll be able to play at 720p with 2x MSAA, or at 1080p with no MSAA.

It's not that simple; regardless of the level of AA, you'll have to shade twice as many pixels at 1080p, and transparency-based particle effects will cost twice the fillrate too. Notice how there aren't that many dust and smoke effects in GTHD - if they were to add some offroad tracks like in GT4, they'd probably have some trouble with that.

 

[Betanumerical]

It's not that simple; regardless of the level of AA, you'll have to shade twice as many pixels at 1080p, and transparency-based particle effects will cost twice the fillrate too. Notice how there aren't that many dust and smoke effects in GTHD - if they were to add some offroad tracks like in GT4, they'd probably have some trouble with that.

Well there were rally tracks / dirt tracks in GT:4 id be very surprised if they took them out.

 

[Arwin]

It's not that simple; regardless of the level of AA, you'll have to shade twice as many pixels at 1080p, and transparency-based particle effects will cost twice the fillrate too. Notice how there aren't that many dust and smoke effects in GTHD - if they were to add some offroad tracks like in GT4, they'd probably have some trouble with that.

Absolutely, I fully agree that it is not that simple. I meant it more as an example.

There are going to be all sorts of trade-offs necessary depending on how you set up your rendering pipeline. And since you can do so pretty weird and complex things with a machines like the PS3 and 360, it's gonna take a while before the virtual dust settles on this topic.

The Rally tracks in GT always have far fewer cars driving around on them. That's going to free up some space for smoke.

Wonder if we'll ever see volumetric smoke in a racing game ... would it even ever be feasible to make it animated with some basic physics?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

People tend to call everything volumetric today... definitions are pretty vague.
Then again, voxel-based techniques, ray marching and such aren't really likely on today's GPUs. Cell is capable of some simple clouds, demonstrated in Warhawk, but to make it look more detailed will require an order of magnitude increase in CPU power...

 

[Graham]

The original question has been answered, and is the subject of many existing threads.
All posts since have related to games/topics with existing threads, so please feel free to continue the conversation in them instead.

As such the thread gets a lock. If you wish it to be reopened, let me know why and I'll consider it.