Yeah it's all about that visual gain vs performance ratio, with Metro Exodus EE the tenor was very different. Even people not to keen about RT praised it because it looks awesome and runs fast.
We need more games like Metro Exodus EE.
Intel ARC GPUs, Xe Architecture for dGPUs [2018-2022]
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We need more games like Metro Exodus EE.
That I agree and from next gen cards, doing at least few RT titles will be a must for a decent review, even if done quickly to get it out the door.
I play games with RT ON on my RX6800XT when possible as I don't need 100+ FPS in most games, so trading frames for visuals is a better option for me.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Almost, but not quite. Easy enough to have launched a game that looks like that. Hard part is having it run fast enough that anyone would care.
If something like that launched and was able to run at 4k/60 "native" resolution then I doubt there would be any grumbling anywhere about the cost of running RT.
The first part is correct though. RT is nice and it's cool and it looks good. Now only if it didn't run like ass without DLSS, or alternatively if DLSS didn't introduce so many distracting visual anomalies in most implementations.
I like RT and I'm all for a future where RT underpins everything as it solves many things that annoy me in games (lighting as it removes the need for weird AO solutions and shadows, reflections I don't really care as much about), unfortunately the cost for a universally good lighting implementation in most games requires the use of DLSS and even at DLSS Quality it still introduces more annoying artifacts than it removes, IMO.
So, when playing on my friend's system with an RTX 3090 + 12900k, I'm still generally disabling RT. Had RT blown my socks off with good performance, I would have bitten the bullet and gotten one of the RTX 3xxx cards by now. But I haven't despite used 3070's selling for around 400 USD now.
Regards,
SB
I think people only complain about performance because of the minor visual uplift in the majority of RT enabled games.
I think people complain when their prized hardware possession is shown to be inadequate. Currently RT is a nice target for that...frustration.
The lesson to learn of course is to not invest much money into this hardware.
Intel Arc has you covered there heh heh.
The lesson to learn of course is to not invest much money into this hardware.
Intel Arc has you covered there heh heh.DavidGraham
Veteran
Sigh!
Minecraft RTX, Quake 2 RTX, Portal RTX, Doom Path Tracing, Serious Same Path Tracing, Quake 1 Path Tracing, Cyberpunk 2077, Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, Wolfenstein Youngblood, Watch Dogs Legion, Control, Deliver Us The Moon, Shadow of Tomb Raider, Bright Memory, Bright Memory Infinite, Ghostwire Tokyo, The Riftbreaker, LEGO Builder's Journey, The Medium, Justice, Xuan-Yuan Sword VII, The Ascent, Industria, Sword and Fairy 7, Marvel's Guardian Of The Galaxy, Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered, Dying Light 2, Chernobylite, Loopmancer, Hitman 3, .. etc, etc. In NONE of these games does enabling RT bring minimal visual improvements, on the contrary .. playing these games without RT deducts heavily from the complete experience.
Rootax
Veteran
I disagree, it's so subjective. In most of theses games, imo, it's good but the game is still looking awesome without (when it's possible).
Give me less blurriness, more detailled world, more drawing distance,etc before RT, please.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Yeah, that's gotta be it. It's not that it's a tenuous economic climate for many in the midst of 'midrange' GPU's now costing ~$500-$700 instead of $200-$300 in years past.
It's that RT is 'being cancelled' by the 'less educated' masses. jfc
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Of course RT looks better, albeit it can vary significantly with each game. But that better lighting/reflections has a cost, there's little point to just rattle off every game that has RT and frame the argument like it's just stubbornness to not hit a graphical toggle instead of people just making a subjective cost/benefit analysis when considering all image quality aspects.
Resolution and frame rate are two very important actors in image quality too, and they're not dependent on a particular scene to actually showcase those benefits. I mean come the fuck on, even mentioning Hitman 3 and The Medium?! Both of those RT implementations are ridiculously expensive, RT in those games is only accessible to an absolutely tiny minority of gamers without drastically cutting back on resolution/frame rate.
Am I a 'RT luddite' because I don't use RT in Spiderman on my 12400 and 3060 as it causes stutters below 60fps with increased DLSS artifacts when I enable it? Or have I simply made a rational cost/benefit analysis based on my 'low end' $500 Cndn GPU?
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Half of the things he listed wouldn't even be worth the time of reviewers to look at for benchmarks because they're either mods or tech demos ...
Flappy Pannus
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I'll add that in addition to the literal rising cost of GPU's (the collapse of crypto mining is great but especially outside of the US, the significant price drops are still largely relegated to the ultra-high-end-this-card-was-only-released-because-it-was-a-goldrush variants) it's been compounded by the simultaneous rising standard of 'performance' too.
Some PC gamers consider games that run under 120fps now to be 'poor' performers. Maybe that's not fair to RT, but that's the climate it arrived in. It can bring far more tangible benefits than past raster improvements, but it's also asking for more sacrifices. It shouldn't be difficult to wonder why it's so contentious.
Some PC gamers consider games that run under 120fps now to be 'poor' performers. Maybe that's not fair to RT, but that's the climate it arrived in. It can bring far more tangible benefits than past raster improvements, but it's also asking for more sacrifices. It shouldn't be difficult to wonder why it's so contentious.
DavidGraham
Veteran
Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.
Ultra settings cost as much as RT in most cases while bringing almost zero improvements to image quality. Go figure.
I second the motion! If'n y'all keep it up BRiT will probably do it for ya.
C'mon, this is Intel's big GPU thread. Let's focus on how crappy their drivers are and how the "screwless design" has 56 screws in it and other such things. Leave ray tracing for another thread pls!
I second the motion! If'n y'all keep it up BRiT will probably do it for ya.
Other actions have been actively discussed over the past few weeks. I'll let @Rys have the honor of rolling it out.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
'Ultra' settings is largely meaningless as a descriptor in and of itself unless we refer to what it means in specific games, but I also fail to see the relevance to this discussion.
Even DF themselves have done videos about how useless Ultra settings usually are, and Hardware Unboxed have also repeatedly stressed this, they're actually unified in their outlook here! Nobody is complaining about the 'resistance' to Ultra settings, the popular argument is how the sacrifice to performance is rarely worth the visual benefit. That's literally the argument some make as their reasoning for not enabling RT.
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