Image Quality and Framebuffer Analysis for Available/release build Games *Read the first post*

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Farid, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. Starx

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    Idont think black crush is very important issue in general , you can adjust brightness or gamma parameters on TV and resolve the problem.
    You are right , I have a calibrated TV too but I usually have different profiles for different sources for example I've calibrated my TV on "Game mode" for my PC and etc...
     
    #2061 Starx, Nov 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2014
  2. djskribbles

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    Well I don't know about you, but I have my TV calibrated, so I never touch my TV controls and everything looks proper. And if the gamma is improper, then boosting the brightness may introduce other issues. Plus sometimes black detail is simply clipped and cannot be viewed, no matter how high you set the brightness.

    But as Shifty said, often times it's simply a mis-match in the RGB levels. But in some cases, XB1 actually has crushed blacks.

    But your display should, at the very least, have black and white levels calibrated to reference levels (either 0/255 or 16/235). And your output device should consistently output black and white at those levels where no tinkering with your display controls should be needed. I never have to touch my TV controls (or in-game gamma controls) on PS3 or PS4 and games look fine... not washed out and no crushed blacks. X360 usually has crushed blacks and XB1 seems to be inconsistent for some reason.
     
    #2062 djskribbles, Nov 3, 2014
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  3. Scott_Arm

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    Killer Instinct definitely seemed to have issues with crushed blacks, and so did Dead Rising 3. I don't know of any other games off hand. Many games have been released without issues, so I don't know what it is. I'm willing to bet, in the case of this game, that's it's a problem with the capture. I'd be very surprised if they'd release a big title like this with that kind of problem.
     
  4. Shifty Geezer

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    Is this confirmed? The game should be sending a full range image to the output hardware which should then be scaling to the display range. Then the display should be scaling the input to 0-255 in terms of pixel brightness. The only reason for black crush would be XB1 outputting 0-255 and the TV using limited range and axing off the bottom end (technically we should get white blowouts too, but that rarely seems to figure). At least, as I understand it. On XB360 things were different due to the wonky gamma, although I thought that was brighter than it should be rather than black crush. But when you had someone capturing from both, they'd just grab the feed and post it online without necessarily setting the capture equipment properly for each device.
     
  5. AlBran

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    They changed that in a patch, didn't they?
     
  6. Scott_Arm

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    Not sure. I know they got rid of the sharpen filter. I played it recently to see the res bump and I don't think it looked like it did when it launched, but I'm not sure.
     
  7. messyman

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    I know people in GAF have been complaining about crushed blacks in Sunset Overdrive and Lords of the Fallen.
    One of the Insomniac guys said they are working to fix the problem.
     
  8. Ike Turner

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    GAF Complains about anything... and as a matter of fact Sunset Overdrive doesn't suffer from crushed black and is displayed the way Insomniac intended it to be. The only thing messed up is the gamma slider in the options menu and this is what is being fixed by the upcoming patch. Oddly enough..nobody on GAF is complaining about the obviously missing self-shadowing in the opening sequence on the PS4...
     
  9. Allandor

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    if you select the correct output parameter you don't have crushed black. That was fixed a long time ago
     
  10. messyman

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    But there is self shadow in the PS4 version.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F4xGX3HFbs
     
  11. Ike Turner

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  12. Shin Ra

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    The patch with the 900p res bump also reintroduced a sharpen filter.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134451524&postcount=14458

    http://www.thesangreal.net/gafpics/kist1.png
    http://www.thesangreal.net/gafpics/kist2.png
    http://www.thesangreal.net/gafpics/kist3.png
    http://www.thesangreal.net/gafpics/kist4.png
    http://www.thesangreal.net/gafpics/kist5.png
    http://www.thesangreal.net/gafpics/kist6.png
    [rgb capture with a DVI2PCIe]
     
  13. Scott_Arm

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    Sunset Overdrive does not crush black.
     
  14. AlBran

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    [​IMG]
    I'm not sure I see the sharpen filter (quite the post-AA :runaway:). There's some shader aliasing for certain edges, but lots of edges are still rather soft. Thin particle geometry doesn't really count.

    Maybe we could use a pre-patch screenshot of the training level vs post-patch. Best would be to compare really.
     
  15. Rockster

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    Yeah, this problem seems to be endemic to people on PC monitors and using external capture cards; due to the default gamma curve being setup for 709, which doesn't properly map to full range 0-255 RGB out. If you've gone through the calibration using the default TV limited 16-235 mode with a HDTV then results are going to be as intended.
     
  16. Arwin

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    Digital Foundry mentions crushed blacks for the XBox One version of Call of Duty. And when they mention it, I assume they mean in the proper use of the word, where it means color information is lost when output from the console in a way that cannot be recovered by adjusting your TV.

    I downloaded the new demoes for pro evo and motor cross on PS4 to see if I can manage to pixel count (I took a small course ;) ). Anyone in a position to do so on Xbox One or get pictures?
     
  17. arhra

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    There's definitely some subtle haloing visible in that shot - check the right side of the right leg, and the underside of the belt against the blue shorts on the left. Doesn't seem like it would be noticeable during gameplay, though.
     
  18. AlBran

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    Yeah, it's slight. Would still rather see a before/after comparison though.
     
  19. Arwin

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    Innovation: I logged on remotely to my PS4 with my Vita during a break, started up the two demos, shared screens to facebook, and counted the pixels from there. I'm taking both to be 1920x1080 native, as there are plenty of lines in there that could be easily checked. Quality was too bad to say anything about AA though I think and framerate obviously not checkable with a remote session that maxes at 30fps. ;)
     
  20. Nesh

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    two demos of what?
     
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