How to sell a next-gen console - price point and marketing [2020]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by steveOrino, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Here is the original question again: Do we really really think there is a significant portion of folks interesting in Microsoft's cloud services that don't have a smart TV already? The stick would be for those people. HDMI slots are limited and Microsoft are competing with sticks from Google, Amazon, Netflix and others.

    Microsoft will be competing with Amazon, Netflix, Google and others for HMDI port space. Because if you're out of ports, putting a new stick in is now more expensive that the cost of the stick.
     
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  2. BRiT

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    Maybe the stick (dongle) doesnt need to be connected to the HDMI port, maybe they use an native app on those platforms but use the stick to connect bluetooth controllers to the network for game input?

    They would need something like that for a Roku App or even Chromecast as neither has controller input. The Android TV platform has Controller Pairing. I think the Amazon Fire platform has it as well. Not sure on AppleTV, I think maybe cause of some games for that platform?
     
  3. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    My only worry with non MS hardware on a TV is the input latency quality. I have a Roku 2 & it's terrible. Smart TVs might be better. I only have one(TCL). My other 2 TVs are dumb. LOL Do many HDMI sticks have good quality Bluetooth support?

    Tommy McClain
     
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  4. eastmen

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    That is why again I said MS would need to have feature parity including apps. Why would MS be competing against Netflix if Netflix is on MS's stick ? That makes no sense at all. Microsoft already has compute sticks and windows wireless display dongles. MS just needs to integrate the two together

    I have a new 65 inch 4k vizio that is a smart tv but I never use the smart features because they suck compared to my fire stick. Its the same for everyone I know. Often times the tv is only supported for 2 or 3 years before apps start to disappear. We have a bluray player that used to get hulu but now that's gone and Netflix is going away also.

    Xcloud would supplement the stick features. If you aren't interested in any microsoft service then yea buying another stick would make more sense. But if you do have xbox , if you have windows pc and so on why wouldn't you pick a microsoft stick ?

    I would move from my firestick to a MS stick because then I can simply just use the microsoft store for renting movies and then I would have mixer on my tv instead of having to stream through a connected pc or my phone. I would also get xcloud benefit and console streaming.

    I have a tv on our back porch. We have a older fire stick a first gen that needs to get replaced soon. I'd love to have some friends over and have cigars and fire up halo or other games but I'm not bringing a $500 xbox outside and then back inside and then outside again. I could simply get an MS stick and connect it to my home network and stream from my xbox series x that is inside the house.

    That's my though at least
     
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  5. eastmen

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    It sounds like from reddit and other places that the chromecast ultra gets dangerously hot when playing games for a prolonged period. So at the very least ms can design a stick or a small box (like the fire tv size) that has active cooling or better passive cooling. My fire sticks all get pretty hot to the touch just streaming Netflix. To help with the issue I bought an hdmi extender and now have it away from the back of the tv.
     
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  6. Shifty Geezer

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    Playing games would be more power consuming than streaming games. A streaming stick need only be a service, although as others say, you'll want a good controller connection that media players care nothing for. A device to play games locally, an Xbox Micro, is still going to be fairly sizeable. What's the smallest MS could realistically go packing an XB1? I recently bought a diddly £200 PC to replace an ageing laptop that's as wide as a DVD, square, and an inch high if you don't want a second HDD. It's dinky and can mount on a VESA bracket.

    upload_2020-6-7_17-49-6.png

    I can't imagine an XB fitting into anything smaller like a FireTV Stick though.
     
  7. BRiT

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    The Chromecast design is the same since they were first released. They get incredibly hot with only playing videos which can take advantage of buffering and other predictive decoding. Now throw in something that can't buffer ahead of time or be as predictive and that's why you saw Over-Heating Shutdown reports for the Stadia Release.

    As for TVs and their Smart TV efforts, the only ones I can say don't completely suck are model year 2018 or later Roku TVs or those with Amazon Fire built in. The Vizio isn't bad, but it doesn't have the needed wide variety of apps. Even on new 2020 Roku TV models the performance is still below the 2018 Roku Ultra models. And the 2018 Roku Ultras are no powerhouse either. The apps take a little longer to start up and YouTubeTV takes a little longer to do everything, as does Netflix and Prime Video. Where as on even the Original Xbox One console, those apps are all instant. The channel changes on YouTubeTV are instant, where as on Roku Ultras it still takes 3-5 seconds for the new video to show up.

    If the XBox Streaming Stick can be as performant in apps and have as many streaming apps as Xbox or Windows, it should do well enough. I don't know if it'll take off and claw aware market share from Roku or Amazon but it should do well.

    Anyways, this may be straying even further off topic, or maybe a bit niche, as in how to sell a sub $100 streaming console. It's certainly interesting to see how it plays out.
     
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  8. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Ok from those above & others I've found here are some Android TV candidates:
    • Google Chromecast Ultra successor - Codename Sabrina
    • Nvidia Shield TV/Pro
    • Tivo Stream 4K
    • Xiaomi Mi Box S & Xiaomi Mi TV Stick
    Any others? Any recommendations? Or ones to stay away from?

    Tommy McClain
     
  9. manux

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    Linus is high on new shield. AI scaling for movie/netflix playback seems to be a big deal.

     
  10. BRiT

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    Avoid anything from Tivo.

    I say that as having used their DVR products for 3 years until I switched over to Roku and TV Streaming. They have been on the decline for decade or more. They recently went through yet another sale/merger/acquisition. They have not shown any promise at all. Their software is horrible with all sorts of bugs here and there. They should have moved on at least 4 years ago, but didn't and took over 2 years to release their current Stream 4K product. Their execution on the software aspect of it is lacking as well. And it's not really as open a platform as you need to be. They're a dead company walking, especially with cable companies moving over to other providers for their IP-TV services. They have been defocusing from the consumer aspect for a while. They tend to use their retail products as early beta tests or guinea pigs for the products they sell to cable providers.

    I do like the Roku software, but they just need to make better hardware, but they must be pinching every penny on their products for maximum profit.
     
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  11. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Netflix support very few bespoke platforms, preferring to investing effort into their existing app ecosystem so would Microsoft's stick offer it's own TV app ecosystem or it this compatible with Android or webOS?
     
  12. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Microsoft has recently started to show a willingness to support other app platforms when it makes sense(e.g. Surface Duo). If they are going to support Android on their next phone, then I don't see why they wouldn't support Android on a TV device. Might be why they dropped HDMI IN support. Who knows?

    Tommy McClain
     
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  13. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    wrt cloud, the main goal is the need to remove as much hardware out of the equation as possible. They already have to buy a controller, that is already a lot. If they can get away with just using an existing device, PC, or the TV itself that would be ideal. I would not expect them to pursue a streaming stick.

    Target audiences for XCloud, as being a primary gaming service, should be places in the world where the majority of people own cellular devices, but no TVs.
    Many markets like India, China, heck quite a bit of Asia, Africa, etc.

    Streaming services in 1st world countries, are likely more to be used as a complement to their existing hardware strategies.

    The goal of cloud gaming should be to expand the reach of gaming, not to ask the already heavy gamers to double down on what they're already using. It's really important imo, that they offer a netflix like scenario so that these new markets have a large variety of games to try, as opposed to the Stadia approach which made players buy their own titles.

    XCloud is for that Asian market, the Asian market that doesn't have LAN lines running everywhere, or those places that have forgone TVs entirely. That's where streaming services are supposed to dominate. But if they've never really played games on your console, the incentive needs to be a large category of games for them to engage and try out. resolution and performance won't matter as much as variety and quality of the titles.
     
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  14. Jay

    Jay
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    MS killed music and it's tv / movie ecosystem, is on its last legs.
    They will just support third party apps as they already currently do on xbox.
     
  15. eastmen

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    Its actually successful on the xbox in terms of tv/movies. A lot of people rent from it. The reason music didn't work is because its not avalible on everything. When i was still using my zune I had their music service because I had my zune , my laptop , my xbox 360 and I had my media centers set up. So I could use it on everything.


    anyway

    https://www.windowscentral.com/raze...tw_card&utm_content=78053&utm_campaign=social
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    There is a great little video on it also.

    Its going to make for a great supplemental to your console and pc. This is just a little expensive at $80. $50 would have been a great deal
     
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  16. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil my grapes.
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    I'd have to try it, but the placement of the right analogue stick looks too low to have anything much sit in the palm of your hand. The Switch just barely manages it. My PSVita didn't at all until I got a cradle thing:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. cheapchips

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  18. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I think this is why Sony made so little noise about lack of loading in this week's The Future of Gaming presentation. That want this message to form part of the 'value equation' when they drop the price. The vast majority of prospective PS5 gamers will have no idea about how huge the switch to SSD will be - even those with SSDs in existing devices because PS5 is something else entirely. Many, many gamers will have no experience of zero-load gaming because it's not been a thing since cartridge-based 8/16-bit systems.

    edit: missing word.
     
    #458 DSoup, Jun 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  19. jayco

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    Both consoles are going to be 499$ at least. I think Sony wants to go higher but first wants to know if MS wants to do the same. If MS reveals that XBSX is 599$ (which I think is plausible, after all the XBO X is still 499$), I think Sony may even match or stay close to that price.
     
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  20. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    If Sony retain much of their existing PS4 user base then they afford to heavily subside losses on sale of the console for the 12-24 months. They definitely won't want too but the longterm monetisation of selling games and other media through PSN, will make it viable.

    Based on the inaccurate science of YouTube views/likes, a lot of people are interested in PS5. This will have emboldened them.

    This year is a bit of an expensive tech blowout for me. I bought 512Gb iPad Pro 12.9" and 1Tb i7 MacBook Air just a few months ago. I'm willing to drop a decent amount on a good 55" OLED with VRR if I can find one and I'm also willing to day one purchase PS5 and XSX, along with a external 4Tb SSD for the PS5 for all the PS4 games that I know will replay. Not to mention expanding that PS5 and XSX SSD as soon as 2-4Tb drives appear. I'm also due a new iPhone and Apple Watch. My 'tech/toy fund' has been building up for some time and its time has come!
     
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