Game devs on trial - considerations on current game technical quality and causes *spawn

[Albuquerque]

I will say that I've sunk many dozens of hours into games which I wanted to like, recent examples for me would be Witcher 3 (please don't murder me!) and No Mans Sky. I heard so many great things about Witcher 3, the open world, the deep characters, the RPG elements. Somehow it never grabbed me, and yet at the same time so many people whom I know enjoy good games really seemed to have nothing but great things to say about it. Yet, at the same time, I never once posted a bad review of it anywhere, and in fact mostly (this reply as another example) chalked it up to I somehow just do not enjoy the "harder core" RPGs like others do. That doesn't make it a bad game, it just turned out it wasn't my thing and that's OK.

No Mans Sky was harder... Talk about being promised a thing, and then being delivered something completely empty. What's crazy is, I dropped almost a hundred hours into that game early on when arguably it was in the worst state ever. Years and years later, I feel like they've worked hard to deliver on so many promises they initially failed to deliver, and arguably it's an incredibly better game now -- and yet, I haven't picked it up in years! Why? Because I somehow feel a little left behind; all the new mechanics seem so foreign to me now, it's nothing like it started. That doesn't mean it's a bad game, hell if anything it's now a good game, and yet the same as Witcher 3 to me: it doesn't really fit my style, and that's OK.

I guess all these words are really meant to reinforce @Silent_Buddha 's point: some self awareness could go a really long way for all the people decrying "lazy devs!" Everyone needs to own their part of the problem, or the problem will never go away.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I will say that I've sunk many dozens of hours into games which I wanted to like, recent examples for me would be Witcher 3 (please don't murder me!) and No Mans Sky. I heard so many great things about Witcher 3, the open world, the deep characters, the RPG elements. Somehow it never grabbed me, and yet at the same time so many people whom I know enjoy good games really seemed to have nothing but great things to say about it. Yet, at the same time, I never once posted a bad review of it anywhere, and in fact mostly (this reply as another example) chalked it up to I somehow just do not enjoy the "harder core" RPGs like others do. That doesn't make it a bad game, it just turned out it wasn't my thing and that's OK.

No Mans Sky was harder... Talk about being promised a thing, and then being delivered something completely empty. What's crazy is, I dropped almost a hundred hours into that game early on when arguably it was in the worst state ever. Years and years later, I feel like they've worked hard to deliver on so many promises they initially failed to deliver, and arguably it's an incredibly better game now -- and yet, I haven't picked it up in years! Why? Because I somehow feel a little left behind; all the new mechanics seem so foreign to me now, it's nothing like it started. That doesn't mean it's a bad game, hell if anything it's now a good game, and yet the same as Witcher 3 to me: it doesn't really fit my style, and that's OK.

I guess all these words are really meant to reinforce @Silent_Buddha 's point: some self awareness could go a really long way for all the people decrying "lazy devs!" Everyone needs to own their part of the problem, or the problem will never go away.

Yup, I've done that a lot with Warhammer games because I really love Warhammer lore. But I know it's me forcing me to play a bad game (better description, one that I don't enjoy). No need to go shouting to the world when it's me subjecting myself to self-inflicted pain. Enough to just leave a short review and move on. Outside of Warhammer? Either don't buy it or refund it. Vote with my wallet.

Side note: I usually just use Twitch or YouTube to watch someone else playing through a thing if I want to see the story or lore but can't stand playing the game. But there are a LOT of crappy Warhammer releases and most of them don't get or deserve a Twitch or YT playthrough.

Hell, as you noted, sometimes it's just not a "for me" game but other people might love it. So, there's no need for me to seek out other people's positive reviews or posts and then vociferously try to shout them down about it being a bad game. Why yuck on someone else's yum?

Regards,
SB

 

[Johnny Awesome]

The biggest problem people have is "going without". The devs/publishers don't owe us anything. An example in my life is that I'd love to have the odd Disney movie on cable for my granddaughter, but I don't think Disney+ is worth the price. I don't pound my fist and scream to the heavens about Disney and their corporate greed. I just go without. I don't buy it. We watch Shrek instead.

I'm sorry City Skylines II didn't work out for you. Don't buy it. There are plenty of other good games out there. Grow up. Life doesn't owe you anything. Too bad they don't teach the kids that anymore...

 

[DavidGraham]

We have documented cases of multiple devs stuggling with a bad engine choice, like many of the Frostbite games, Mass Effect Andromeda, Battlefield 2042, Anthem, and the list goes on.

We have documented cases of games with horrible visual downgrades.

We have documented cases of lazy ports, like the GTA trilogy, Metal Gear Solid trilogy, Red Dead Redemption 1, and the list goes on.

We have documented cases of lazy cash graps with little to no improvements like the FIFA, Madden and the myraids of wrestling titles that continue to get released in a sorry state every year for decades.

We have lazy mobile spin offs (of big AAA franchises) that combine all the sins of gaming in one package.

There is also lazy remasters, lazy remakes and buggy dysfunctional games.

I am reminding everyone here of this so they don't forget where the lazy dev terminology came from.

It's a hobby! Why should it warrant the kind of safe-guards as life-threatening health and construction?? As a hobby, it's 'regulated' solely by capitalistic principles. If it's not good enough, people will stop spending money.

That "market is self correcting" is a lazy justification execuse, because games are mostly purchased by the younger generations, those purchase games based on trends and being the new hot thing, or based on the desire to waste time in something, they are also a huge target for predatroy microtransacrions schemes, addictive gambling schemes and easy cash graps (like the sports titles).

This is a naive view of the market, a view that ignores the psychology of gaming that rules over it's core, which I am exposed to in my profession as a Psychiatrist/Neurologist. I personally oversaw multiple cases of video game addiction, some of them were even admitted in mental hospitals. We have added video game addiction as a mental disease in the latest DSMs (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disroders) because of this.

So no, the market won't correct itself quickly as you think, because the younger generation is under tremendous psychological pressure to pursue the next hot thing and the latest trends, or anything they can latch onto to kill the boring times with.

So with all due respect nobody here seems to have any experience regarding this. I have that experience. And I am telling you, the market won't correct itself unless there is another hot thing for younger people to latch on to. Right now there is gaming and only gaming. And it will remain so for the foreseeable future.

 

[Albuquerque]

So with all due respect nobody here seems to have any experience regarding this. I have that experience. And I am telling you, the market won't correct itself unless there is another hot thing for younger people to latch on to. Right now there is gaming and only gaming. And it will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Everything you typed applies to any software development shop who anchors their work on someone else's base technology. Or actually, even when they build their own technology and can't realize until it's too late that they're in over their head but still need to deliver.

Before I got hard into the paint on Infrastructure, I had 20 years of software development experience in both individual contributor and leadership roles for Fortune 500-and-bigger companies. And as I have this experience in this space (and who are you to say yours is better or worse than mine?) I say you're full of yourself and need to recognize when you aren't the only authority in the room.

I'm glad you have your opinion; you're entitled to it and you're welcome to tell us about it. No part of that means you're precisely right, and that's on YOU to recognize.

 

[DavidGraham]

I say you're full of yourself and need to recognize when you aren't the only authority in the room

Stick to the core issue at hands, we are not here to brag about who have authority over whom.

All I am saying is that video games mentality and psychology is different. As an adult you are detached from that mentality, the younger masses aren't, and thus are susceptible to all the predatory practices that feed on their psychology and compel them to purchase games not based on quality, but based on social and psychological pressure. The bad game practices can survive based on this population alone for decades to come.

If you have experiences in that matter please do tell.

 

[Albuquerque]

You want to try pivoting this at me, claiming we aren't here to brag about who has authority... And then here's you on your exact last diatribe:

So with all due respect nobody here seems to have any experience regarding this. I have that experience.

Spare us all your indignity at being called out, because that quote is bullshit. You are NOT the only one here with experience, despite your claim. Further, you seem to be making some higher-than-thou "psychological" claims as if you're also a degreed psychologist. Which specific psychology field are you tensured in, exactly?

The point is: you are AN authority, without question, yet you are not THE authority you claimed to be. Don't be the asshole, your opinion is a valid opinion, yet it isn't the only one.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

We've rapidly swerved off even a semi-coherent topic and the new trajectory is not promising, so I'm gonna declare this one has run its useful course. Feel free to start a new thread with a more explicit thesis if desired.